• RS stopped manufacturing raspberies

    From Jan Panteltje@3:770/3 to All on Sun Aug 21 06:51:27 2022
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/raspberry-pi-manufacturer-rs-group-ends-license-after-a-decade
    RS stopped manufacturing raspberies

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  • From Stewart Russell@3:770/3 to Jan Panteltje on Sun Aug 21 13:33:01 2022
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 2:53:59 a.m. UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/raspberry-pi-manufacturer-rs-group-ends-license-after-a-decade
    RS stopped manufacturing raspberies

    Official response to this is here - https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=338702&hilit=RS#p2028301

    "RS Group has been an important partner for Raspberry Pi, manufacturing our products under licence since launch in February 2012. Our licence agreement with RS Group came to an end in June 2022, with the result that they no longer manufacture Raspberry
    Pi products. Other licensees, and our own production, are unaffected by this change. We continue to work with our reseller partners to supply Raspberry Pi products to the market, and anticipate no negative impact on availability in Japan or elsewhere."

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  • From A. Dumas@3:770/3 to Stewart Russell on Sun Aug 21 22:10:04 2022
    Stewart Russell <scruss@gmail.com> wrote:
    Official response to this is here - https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t38702&hilit=RS#p2028301

    [...] Our licence agreement with RS Group came to an end in June 2022,
    with the result that they no longer manufacture Raspberry Pi products.

    Nice bit of passive-form marketing speak for: we decided that we did not
    want to extend the licence agreement because we think we can make more
    money that way. (Or: we=they!)

    Not that there's anything wrong with making money.

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  • From druck@3:770/3 to A. Dumas on Mon Aug 22 14:22:27 2022
    On 21/08/2022 23:10, A. Dumas wrote:
    Stewart Russell <scruss@gmail.com> wrote:
    Official response to this is here -
    https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t38702&hilit=RS#p2028301

    [...] Our licence agreement with RS Group came to an end in June 2022,
    with the result that they no longer manufacture Raspberry Pi products.

    Nice bit of passive-form marketing speak for: we decided that we did not
    want to extend the licence agreement because we think we can make more
    money that way. (Or: we=they!)

    Not that there's anything wrong with making money.

    At the moment there isn't enough chips to keep one manufacturer at full production, never mind two.

    ---druck

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  • From A. Dumas@3:770/3 to druck on Mon Aug 22 17:34:02 2022
    On 22-08-2022 15:22, druck wrote:
    On 21/08/2022 23:10, A. Dumas wrote:
    Stewart Russell <scruss@gmail.com> wrote:
    Official response to this is here -
    https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t38702&hilit=RS#p2028301

      [...] Our licence agreement with RS Group came to an end in June 2022, >>> with the result that they no longer manufacture Raspberry Pi products.

    Nice bit of passive-form marketing speak for: we decided that we did not
    want to extend the licence agreement because we think we can make more
    money that way. (Or: we=they!)

    Not that there's anything wrong with making money.

    At the moment there isn't enough chips to keep one manufacturer at full production, never mind two.

    That's hopefully short term, or at least not another 10 years. Also, a
    licence may or may not include a minimum production quotum. They could
    have extended with no obligation to build any. Of course that's another commercial decision.

    So what I mean is that you are right but I don't think it prevented a
    new licence agreement.

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  • From alister@3:770/3 to A. Dumas on Mon Aug 22 21:55:35 2022
    On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 22:10:04 -0000 (UTC), A. Dumas wrote:

    Stewart Russell <scruss@gmail.com> wrote:
    Official response to this is here -
    https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t38702&hilit=RS#p2028301

    [...] Our licence agreement with RS Group came to an end in June 2022,
    with the result that they no longer manufacture Raspberry Pi products.

    Nice bit of passive-form marketing speak for: we decided that we did not
    want to extend the licence agreement because we think we can make more
    money that way. (Or: we=they!)

    Not that there's anything wrong with making money.

    Perhaps it was RS who did not wish to resume? that press release does not comment either way but RS have started producing their own SBC so may not
    wish to produce a competing device?




    --
    Business is a good game -- lots of competition and minimum of rules.
    You keep score with money.
    -- Nolan Bushnell, founder of Atari

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  • From A. Dumas@3:770/3 to alister on Tue Aug 23 11:05:38 2022
    On 22-08-2022 23:55, alister wrote:
    On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 22:10:04 -0000 (UTC), A. Dumas wrote:

    Stewart Russell <scruss@gmail.com> wrote:
    Official response to this is here -
    https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t38702&hilit=RS#p2028301

    [...] Our licence agreement with RS Group came to an end in June 2022, >>> with the result that they no longer manufacture Raspberry Pi products.

    Nice bit of passive-form marketing speak for: we decided that we did not
    want to extend the licence agreement because we think we can make more
    money that way. (Or: we=they!)

    Not that there's anything wrong with making money.

    Perhaps it was RS who did not wish to resume?

    Yes, that's why I added "or: we=they" but that was a bit cryptic, sorry.

    that press release does not
    comment either way but RS have started producing their own SBC so may not wish to produce a competing device?

    Ah good catch, if that's it; I can't seem to find anything about it.
    Don't think there's mention of it here in the list of press releases on
    the UK website: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/generalDisplay.html?id=footer1/release

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  • From Andy Burns@3:770/3 to A. Dumas on Wed Aug 24 15:23:43 2022
    A. Dumas wrote:

    alister wrote:

    RS have started producing their own SBC so may not
    wish to produce a competing device?

    I can't seem to find anything about it.

    This, perhaps?

    <https://www.epdtonthenet.net/article/192228/OKdo-brings-an-end-to-SBC--single-board-computer--shortage-with-exciting-new-partnership.aspx>

    <https://www.okdo.com>

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Andy Burns on Wed Aug 24 19:18:55 2022
    On 24/08/2022 15:23, Andy Burns wrote:
    A. Dumas wrote:

    alister wrote:

    RS have started producing their own SBC so may not
    wish to produce a competing device?

    I can't seem to find anything about it.

    This, perhaps?

    <https://www.epdtonthenet.net/article/192228/OKdo-brings-an-end-to-SBC--single-board-computer--shortage-with-exciting-new-partnership.aspx>


    <https://www.okdo.com>
    VERY interesting.
    Pi showed the way, and this looks set to lumber after it and capture
    decent market share

    --
    “Some people like to travel by train because it combines the slowness of
    a car with the cramped public exposure of 
an airplane.”

    Dennis Miller

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  • From Ahem A Rivet's Shot@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Wed Aug 24 19:47:51 2022
    On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 19:18:55 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    VERY interesting. Pi showed the way,

    Indeed it did.

    and this looks set to lumber after it and capture decent market share

    Probably, but it is one of many theses days. Hardkernel have been making their Odroid range for some years now for example - then there's
    Orange Pi, Banana Pi, Nvidia Jetson ...

    --
    Steve O'Hara-Smith
    Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

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  • From alister@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Wed Aug 24 19:17:35 2022
    On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 19:18:55 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 24/08/2022 15:23, Andy Burns wrote:
    A. Dumas wrote:

    alister wrote:

    RS have started producing their own SBC so may not wish to produce a
    competing device?

    I can't seem to find anything about it.

    This, perhaps?

    <https://www.epdtonthenet.net/article/192228/OKdo-brings-an-end-to- SBC--single-board-computer--shortage-with-exciting-new-partnership.aspx>


    <https://www.okdo.com>
    VERY interesting.
    Pi showed the way, and this looks set to lumber after it and capture
    decent market share

    that I would think depends on the price point & also community support
    which is by far the Raspberry Pi foundations biggest asset.



    --
    Love is like the measles; we all have to go through it.
    -- Jerome K. Jerome

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  • From Andy Burns@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Wed Aug 24 19:33:25 2022
    The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    Andy Burns wrote:

    <https://www.okdo.com>

    VERY interesting.
    Pi showed the way, and this looks set to lumber after it and capture decent market share

    Not such a good look to claim to bring an end to shortages, then your online store is out of stock ...

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  • From Theo@3:770/3 to Andy Burns on Wed Aug 24 22:17:55 2022
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
    This, perhaps?

    <https://www.epdtonthenet.net/article/192228/OKdo-brings-an-end-to-SBC--single-board-computer--shortage-with-exciting-new-partnership.aspx>

    <https://www.okdo.com>

    Hmm:
    https://rockpi.org/

    They're sailing close to trademark wind with the 'Pi' name. Banana, Orange
    Pi are only in China where the lawyers can't reach, and so are Rock Pi, but
    if RS start selling those as Pis then there might be trouble.

    Rockchip silicon, which is a bit better than the usual Allwinner stuff of
    the clones.

    The real question is software support - by the looks of their downloads page it's got a long way to do:
    Android Kitkat 4.4.2 source code - that was released in 2013
    Linux kernel 3.0.36 - that was release in 2012

    I eventually found https://wiki.radxa.com/Rockpi4/downloads
    which again has images running old kernels - Ubuntu 20.04 should have a 5.4 kernel (released 2019) but Rock Pi's stable image ships with a 4.4 kernel (released 2016, EOL Feb 2022). There isn't a Ubuntu 22.04 image. The most recent Debian is a Buster (released 2019).

    The problem with a lot of these me-too boards is the software quality is
    about comparable with budget Android phones: they ship a release and call
    the product done. That's what the Radxa forum seems to confirm. I would be concerned that any me-too product doesn't have nearly as good software as
    the official Raspberry Pi product line does.

    The hardware is a bit better (the Pi hardware has always been a collection
    of missed opportunities) but it's software that really matters.

    Theo

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  • From Computer Nerd Kev@3:770/3 to Theo on Thu Aug 25 08:52:43 2022
    Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
    <https://www.epdtonthenet.net/article/192228/OKdo-brings-an-end-to-SBC--single-board-computer--shortage-with-exciting-new-partnership.aspx>
    [snip]
    The problem with a lot of these me-too boards is the software quality is about comparable with budget Android phones: they ship a release and call
    the product done. That's what the Radxa forum seems to confirm. I would be concerned that any me-too product doesn't have nearly as good software as
    the official Raspberry Pi product line does.

    The hardware is a bit better (the Pi hardware has always been a collection
    of missed opportunities) but it's software that really matters.

    Radxa do have the ROCK Pi X, which is one of the most popular
    Pi-inspired x86 SBCs. With Intel x86 hardware you don't really need
    the manufacturer to keep developing their own set of Linux kernel
    patches and drivers because the mainline Linux kernel developers
    are sufficiently motivated/paid to do that themselves.

    https://wiki.radxa.com/RockpiX

    RS aren't starting with that model though, based on the article.

    --
    __ __
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  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to alister on Thu Aug 25 05:23:39 2022
    On 24/08/2022 20:17, alister wrote:
    On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 19:18:55 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 24/08/2022 15:23, Andy Burns wrote:
    A. Dumas wrote:

    alister wrote:

    RS have started producing their own SBC so may not wish to produce a >>>>> competing device?

    I can't seem to find anything about it.

    This, perhaps?

    <https://www.epdtonthenet.net/article/192228/OKdo-brings-an-end-to-
    SBC--single-board-computer--shortage-with-exciting-new-partnership.aspx>


    <https://www.okdo.com>
    VERY interesting.
    Pi showed the way, and this looks set to lumber after it and capture
    decent market share

    that I would think depends on the price point & also community support
    which is by far the Raspberry Pi foundations biggest asset.



    Agreed without hesitation

    --
    “There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”

    —Soren Kierkegaard

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  • From Andy Burns@3:770/3 to Theo on Thu Aug 25 12:59:22 2022
    Theo wrote:

    I can't work out what the difference is with the Rock 4 SE advertised by RS and the other Rock Pi 4 versions listed by Radxa.

    Looks like a bit of reworking around the power supply corner and the ethernet chip

    <http://andyburns.uk/misc/rockpi4b_vs_rock4se.png>

    Is it just RS doing their own branding thing?

    Getting rid of the "Pi" name

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  • From Theo@3:770/3 to Computer Nerd Kev on Thu Aug 25 12:24:14 2022
    Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
    Radxa do have the ROCK Pi X, which is one of the most popular
    Pi-inspired x86 SBCs. With Intel x86 hardware you don't really need
    the manufacturer to keep developing their own set of Linux kernel
    patches and drivers because the mainline Linux kernel developers
    are sufficiently motivated/paid to do that themselves.

    Yes, Intel writes good drivers for their silicon and maintains them.
    Rockchip, Mediatek, Allwinner and friends - and let's not forget Qualcomm
    and Samsung too - don't.

    https://wiki.radxa.com/RockpiX

    RS aren't starting with that model though, based on the article.

    I can't work out what the difference is with the Rock 4 SE advertised by RS
    and the other Rock Pi 4 versions listed by Radxa. Is it just RS doing their own branding thing?

    Theo

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  • From Theo@3:770/3 to Andy Burns on Thu Aug 25 13:15:15 2022
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
    Theo wrote:

    I can't work out what the difference is with the Rock 4 SE advertised by
    RS and the other Rock Pi 4 versions listed by Radxa.

    Looks like a bit of reworking around the power supply corner and the ethernet chip

    <http://andyburns.uk/misc/rockpi4b_vs_rock4se.png>

    According to this, it's mostly just a slower version of the Rock Pi 4: https://wiki.radxa.com/Rockpi4/getting_started

    Maybe the reworking is parts supply related?

    Is it just RS doing their own branding thing?

    Getting rid of the "Pi" name

    Yep:

    "ROCK or ROCK Pi

    When first introduced in 2018, the name was ROCK Pi 4. In 2022, we decide
    to remove the Pi in the name because some people think ROCK Pi is the brand, but actually Radxa is the brand name, ROCK Pi is the product line name. The full name for 4C Plus should be Radxa ROCK 4 Model C Plus. (Note ROCK is always in upper case.) Since the ROCK Pi 4 is widely used already, all the content on the internet can not be changed immediately. So both ROCK Pi 4
    and ROCK 4 refer the same product, the model number is what the users should pay attention when choosing images or ask for support. "


    And definitely not to do with stealing someone else's trademark, oh no.

    Theo

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  • From A. Dumas@3:770/3 to Theo on Thu Aug 25 14:43:27 2022
    On 25-08-2022 14:15, Theo wrote:
    "ROCK or ROCK Pi
    [...] (Note ROCK is always in upper case.)

    Yeah fuck that, RS dudes :)

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  • From scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us@3:770/3 to Computer Nerd Kev on Thu Aug 25 16:41:13 2022
    Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
    Radxa do have the ROCK Pi X, which is one of the most popular
    Pi-inspired x86 SBCs. With Intel x86 hardware you don't really need
    the manufacturer to keep developing their own set of Linux kernel
    patches and drivers because the mainline Linux kernel developers
    are sufficiently motivated/paid to do that themselves.

    https://wiki.radxa.com/RockpiX

    RS aren't starting with that model though, based on the article.

    I think those are out of production. The only listing on Amazon has it
    selling for over $300. Mine was $100 when I bought it from Allnet about a
    year and a half ago in the maxed-out configuration (4 GB RAM, 128 GB eMMC),
    but when you go to their website now, all configurations are either sold out
    or unavailable, and have been for a while.

    I bought one to use as a video player, as it'd handle things like LBRY that
    I hadn't managed to get running on the Raspberry Pi. Since it's AMD64
    instead of ARM, bringing up a new installation of Linux (or even Windows, if you're so inclined) isn't much different than doing the same with some
    random Dell or HP desktop. Mine runs Gentoo Linux, and the only thing I've
    not gotten working is the onboard WiFi...no big loss as it's on a wired connection.


    --
    _/_
    / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
    (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
    \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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  • From Computer Nerd Kev@3:770/3 to scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us on Fri Aug 26 07:06:02 2022
    scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us wrote:
    Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
    Radxa do have the ROCK Pi X, which is one of the most popular
    Pi-inspired x86 SBCs. With Intel x86 hardware you don't really need
    the manufacturer to keep developing their own set of Linux kernel
    patches and drivers because the mainline Linux kernel developers
    are sufficiently motivated/paid to do that themselves.

    https://wiki.radxa.com/RockpiX

    RS aren't starting with that model though, based on the article.

    I think those are out of production. The only listing on Amazon has it selling for over $300. Mine was $100 when I bought it from Allnet about a year and a half ago in the maxed-out configuration (4 GB RAM, 128 GB eMMC), but when you go to their website now, all configurations are either sold out or unavailable, and have been for a while.

    They're still on Aliexpress, which is where I'd probably go to buy
    one:
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001723184608.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004525588026.html

    --
    __ __
    #_ < |\| |< _#

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Computer Nerd Kev on Fri Aug 26 08:38:15 2022
    On 25/08/2022 22:06, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
    scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us wrote:
    Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
    Radxa do have the ROCK Pi X, which is one of the most popular
    Pi-inspired x86 SBCs. With Intel x86 hardware you don't really need
    the manufacturer to keep developing their own set of Linux kernel
    patches and drivers because the mainline Linux kernel developers
    are sufficiently motivated/paid to do that themselves.

    https://wiki.radxa.com/RockpiX

    RS aren't starting with that model though, based on the article.

    I think those are out of production. The only listing on Amazon has it
    selling for over $300. Mine was $100 when I bought it from Allnet about a >> year and a half ago in the maxed-out configuration (4 GB RAM, 128 GB eMMC), >> but when you go to their website now, all configurations are either sold out >> or unavailable, and have been for a while.

    They're still on Aliexpress, which is where I'd probably go to buy
    one:
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001723184608.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004525588026.html

    I bought 5 pairs of power transitorors from Ali express last month.
    I used 3 of each - all failed within an hour, and the final one
    destroyed a loudspeaker voice coil

    They hadn't the voltage rating of what they were stamped with. Restamped rejects.

    --
    Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
    too dark to read.

    Groucho Marx

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  • From Computer Nerd Kev@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Sat Aug 27 06:22:25 2022
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 25/08/2022 22:06, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
    scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us wrote:
    Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
    Radxa do have the ROCK Pi X, which is one of the most popular
    Pi-inspired x86 SBCs. With Intel x86 hardware you don't really need
    the manufacturer to keep developing their own set of Linux kernel
    patches and drivers because the mainline Linux kernel developers
    are sufficiently motivated/paid to do that themselves.

    https://wiki.radxa.com/RockpiX

    RS aren't starting with that model though, based on the article.

    I think those are out of production. The only listing on Amazon has it
    selling for over $300. Mine was $100 when I bought it from Allnet about a >>> year and a half ago in the maxed-out configuration (4 GB RAM, 128 GB eMMC), >>> but when you go to their website now, all configurations are either sold out
    or unavailable, and have been for a while.

    They're still on Aliexpress, which is where I'd probably go to buy
    one:
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001723184608.html
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004525588026.html

    I bought 5 pairs of power transitorors from Ali express last month.
    I used 3 of each - all failed within an hour, and the final one
    destroyed a loudspeaker voice coil

    I don't doubt it, but Chinese crap is Chinese crap wherever you buy
    it from. For example the Banana Pi boards are sold on Aliexpress by
    SinoVoip (among others), the manufacturer, so they're obviously the
    same quality that you'll get elsewhere, whether that's good enough
    or not.

    In the case of the ROCK Pi X I'd be most concerned about the
    omission of a heatsink.

    They hadn't the voltage rating of what they were stamped with. Restamped rejects.

    Cheap power transistors are classics for Chinese fakes. I think the Chinese-brand SBCs are more likely to be legit, though I'm
    suspicious of the sellers offering Raspberry Pis. Reading the
    reviews helps a lot, hopefully you left a negative one about those
    transistors.

    --
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  • From Stewart Russell@3:770/3 to A. Dumas on Fri Aug 26 14:59:43 2022
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 6:10:05 p.m. UTC-4, A. Dumas wrote:

    Nice bit of passive-form marketing speak for: we decided that we did not
    want to extend the licence agreement because we think we can make more
    money that way. (Or: we=they!)

    That's not the reason at all. Anyone who's a Raspberry Pi AR knows, but they can't tell you.

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  • From Stewart Russell@3:770/3 to Computer Nerd Kev on Fri Aug 26 15:03:23 2022
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 6:52:59 p.m. UTC-4, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

    Radxa do have the ROCK Pi X, ...

    OKdo won't be carrying that model at all. The chip's pretty close to end-of-life, and it's really not very powerful at all.

    I've had a RockPi X for a couple of years. Yes, the eMMC is nice, as is the run-any-x86-OS thing, but its RAM is much slower than a Raspberry Pi 4, and its video options are quite limited.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From A. Dumas@3:770/3 to Stewart Russell on Sat Aug 27 10:08:59 2022
    On 26-08-2022 23:59, Stewart Russell wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 6:10:05 p.m. UTC-4, A. Dumas wrote:

    Nice bit of passive-form marketing speak for: we decided that we did not
    want to extend the licence agreement because we think we can make more
    money that way. (Or: we=they!)

    That's not the reason at all. Anyone who's a Raspberry Pi AR knows, but they can't tell you.

    I don't know what an AR is. Why don't you tell us why you don't think
    that it is not the reason at all?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Computer Nerd Kev on Sat Aug 27 12:20:30 2022
    On 26/08/2022 21:22, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 25/08/2022 22:06, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
    scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us wrote:
    Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
    Radxa do have the ROCK Pi X, which is one of the most popular
    Pi-inspired x86 SBCs. With Intel x86 hardware you don't really need
    the manufacturer to keep developing their own set of Linux kernel
    patches and drivers because the mainline Linux kernel developers
    are sufficiently motivated/paid to do that themselves.

    https://wiki.radxa.com/RockpiX

    RS aren't starting with that model though, based on the article.

    I think those are out of production. The only listing on Amazon has it >>>> selling for over $300. Mine was $100 when I bought it from Allnet about a >>>> year and a half ago in the maxed-out configuration (4 GB RAM, 128 GB eMMC),
    but when you go to their website now, all configurations are either sold out
    or unavailable, and have been for a while.

    They're still on Aliexpress, which is where I'd probably go to buy
    one:
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001723184608.html
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004525588026.html

    I bought 5 pairs of power transitorors from Ali express last month.
    I used 3 of each - all failed within an hour, and the final one
    destroyed a loudspeaker voice coil

    I don't doubt it, but Chinese crap is Chinese crap wherever you buy
    it from. For example the Banana Pi boards are sold on Aliexpress by
    SinoVoip (among others), the manufacturer, so they're obviously the
    same quality that you'll get elsewhere, whether that's good enough
    or not.

    In the case of the ROCK Pi X I'd be most concerned about the
    omission of a heatsink.

    They hadn't the voltage rating of what they were stamped with. Restamped
    rejects.

    Cheap power transistors are classics for Chinese fakes. I think the Chinese-brand SBCs are more likely to be legit, though I'm
    suspicious of the sellers offering Raspberry Pis. Reading the
    reviews helps a lot, hopefully you left a negative one about those transistors.

    Hey, I am not disagreeing with anything to say. I bought a cheap Chinese electric guitar last year. The woodwork was fabulous, the machine heads
    and bridge were not bad, the fretboard needed attention from a light
    hammer, but the pickups and control knobs went straight into the bin.

    After installing copper foil screening and NEW Chinese pickups, and
    knobs, it is now really fabulous.

    A $1000 guitar for about $350.

    I've bought a load of stuff from China. Lots of it is superb.
    Some of it is utter junk.
    Caveat Emptor...


    --
    Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
    too dark to read.

    Groucho Marx

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Ahem A Rivet's Shot@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Sat Aug 27 14:19:40 2022
    On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 12:20:30 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    Hey, I am not disagreeing with anything to say. I bought a cheap Chinese electric guitar last year. The woodwork was fabulous, the machine heads
    and bridge were not bad, the fretboard needed attention from a light
    hammer, but the pickups and control knobs went straight into the bin.

    After installing copper foil screening and NEW Chinese pickups, and
    knobs, it is now really fabulous.

    A $1000 guitar for about $350.

    I bought a Chinese made Guild jumbo recently for €580. It's all but identical to the €3500 American made version[1] (same woods, same construction, same machine heads, plays and sounds the same - less bling) no need to change anything the pickup is by Fishman and it was perfectly set
    up off the shelf. Of course it helps no end that Guild set the quality
    control standards - and *that* is what determines whether you get crap or something great out of China.

    [1] Not just my opinion - every reviewer says the same about them.

    --
    Steve O'Hara-Smith
    Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Sat Aug 27 14:53:23 2022
    On 27/08/2022 14:19, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 12:20:30 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    Hey, I am not disagreeing with anything to say. I bought a cheap Chinese
    electric guitar last year. The woodwork was fabulous, the machine heads
    and bridge were not bad, the fretboard needed attention from a light
    hammer, but the pickups and control knobs went straight into the bin.

    After installing copper foil screening and NEW Chinese pickups, and
    knobs, it is now really fabulous.

    A $1000 guitar for about $350.

    I bought a Chinese made Guild jumbo recently for €580. It's all but identical to the €3500 American made version[1] (same woods, same construction, same machine heads, plays and sounds the same - less bling) no need to change anything the pickup is by Fishman and it was perfectly set
    up off the shelf. Of course it helps no end that Guild set the quality control standards - and *that* is what determines whether you get crap or something great out of China.

    [1] Not just my opinion - every reviewer says the same about them.

    Well done then. Nice guitar. Mine was way cheaper than that and I knew
    that areas would be sub standard at that price. But then people by $3500 Fenders and spend another $1000 on a luthier to set them up properly.


    --
    "First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your oppressors."
    - George Orwell

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Ahem A Rivet's Shot@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Sat Aug 27 15:44:45 2022
    On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 14:53:23 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    Well done then. Nice guitar. Mine was way cheaper than that and I knew

    It is the most expensive one I own. I have a wonderful Epiphone
    Studio Gothic that only cost me €200 (second hand of course) and an Ovation
    I got for €250 which eats batteries if I use the electronics, sounds
    great unamplified and can only be played sitting down curled round it
    thanks to the bowl shaped back - I often wonder why I bought it.

    that areas would be sub standard at that price. But then people by $3500 Fenders and spend another $1000 on a luthier to set them up properly.

    I know of luthiers who would charge less than that to teach you how
    to do it yourself - setting up a guitar properly isn't exactly difficult
    unless you go to the extent of filing the frets to achieve perfection, even that isn't really hard as long as you have the tools and the patience (i've done it once with great results - but I built that guitar from scratch).

    My oldest guitar (just over 48 years now) is currently in the hands
    of a luthier and violin maker having the neck reset and the bridge
    straightened which will cost me about €350 including setting it up afterwards. That guitar cost be £34 back in 1974 but it out performed everything in the shop less than £130. I was somewhat shocked to realise
    that what I had always thought of as a cheap but very nice guitar cost the equivalent of about €450 in today's money. Guitars have become very cheap.

    --
    Steve O'Hara-Smith
    Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Sat Aug 27 20:14:52 2022
    On 27/08/2022 15:44, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 14:53:23 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    Well done then. Nice guitar. Mine was way cheaper than that and I knew

    It is the most expensive one I own. I have a wonderful Epiphone
    Studio Gothic that only cost me €200 (second hand of course) and an Ovation I got for €250 which eats batteries if I use the electronics, sounds
    great unamplified and can only be played sitting down curled round it
    thanks to the bowl shaped back - I often wonder why I bought it.

    that areas would be sub standard at that price. But then people by $3500
    Fenders and spend another $1000 on a luthier to set them up properly.

    I know of luthiers who would charge less than that to teach you how
    to do it yourself - setting up a guitar properly isn't exactly difficult unless you go to the extent of filing the frets to achieve perfection, even that isn't really hard as long as you have the tools and the patience (i've done it once with great results - but I built that guitar from scratch).

    I'm building a scratch 12 string electric. Will have to learn all that
    stuff.

    My oldest guitar (just over 48 years now) is currently in the hands
    of a luthier and violin maker having the neck reset and the bridge straightened which will cost me about €350 including setting it up afterwards. That guitar cost be £34 back in 1974 but it out performed everything in the shop less than £130. I was somewhat shocked to realise that what I had always thought of as a cheap but very nice guitar cost the equivalent of about €450 in today's money. Guitars have become very cheap.

    yeah. I think my eko 12 string from 1971 was less than £50.


    --
    "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
    that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

    Jonathan Swift.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Ahem A Rivet's Shot@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Sat Aug 27 22:57:03 2022
    On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 20:14:52 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    I'm building a scratch 12 string electric. Will have to learn all that
    stuff.

    The most vital tool you will need is a *really* good straight edge longer than the fretboard - although I can't help thinking that in these
    days of cheap lasers it should be possible to arrange a beam with a wide
    level edge to highlight where it needs filing down.

    --
    Steve O'Hara-Smith
    Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Sun Aug 28 17:59:30 2022
    On 27/08/2022 22:57, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 20:14:52 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    I'm building a scratch 12 string electric. Will have to learn all that
    stuff.

    The most vital tool you will need is a *really* good straight edge longer than the fretboard - although I can't help thinking that in these
    days of cheap lasers it should be possible to arrange a beam with a wide level edge to highlight where it needs filing down.

    Saw a video of a pro luthier who had such a beast It was a spirit level
    from a dirt cheap DIY store. He said 'its just as good ' :-)

    Fret rockers will pretty much ID the high spots.

    --
    "The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
    look exactly the same afterwards."

    Billy Connolly

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Ahem A Rivet's Shot@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Sun Aug 28 18:18:16 2022
    On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 17:59:30 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 27/08/2022 22:57, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

    The most vital tool you will need is a *really* good straight
    edge longer than the fretboard - although I can't help thinking that in these days of cheap lasers it should be possible to arrange a beam with
    a wide level edge to highlight where it needs filing down.

    Saw a video of a pro luthier who had such a beast It was a spirit level
    from a dirt cheap DIY store. He said 'its just as good ' :-)

    Damn that's a good idea - even the cheapest once have a good
    machined edge, the thing I used was a reference edge from the metalwork
    shop.

    --
    Steve O'Hara-Smith
    Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Martin Gregorie@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Sun Aug 28 20:08:15 2022
    On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 17:59:30 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 27/08/2022 22:57, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 20:14:52 +0100 The Natural Philosopher
    <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    I'm building a scratch 12 string electric. Will have to learn all that
    stuff.

    The most vital tool you will need is a *really* good straight edge
    longer than the fretboard - although I can't help thinking that in
    these days of cheap lasers it should be possible to arrange a beam with
    a wide level edge to highlight where it needs filing down.

    Saw a video of a pro luthier who had such a beast It was a spirit level
    from a dirt cheap DIY store. He said 'its just as good ' :-)

    Fret rockers will pretty much ID the high spots.

    Dunno if this is much use or not for guitar frets, but:

    One of my more useful tools for getting a good wing profile on a model
    aircraft wing is a 'Great Planes' Easy Touch bar-sander, which I'd guess
    would also do the job you need. It is an alloy extrusion in the form of an 840mm x 50mm flat alloy extrusion with a nice 25 x 19 hollow handle
    running its full length. You stick 50mm adhesive sandpaper strip on its
    flat surface and sell for under $10 in the US, though they seem to be in
    rather short supply ATM.

    Permagrit also do double sided sanding blocks of up to 560mm long, but for around 46 quid.



    --

    Martin | martin at
    Gregorie | gregorie dot org

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Ahem A Rivet's Shot@3:770/3 to Martin Gregorie on Sun Aug 28 22:31:41 2022
    On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 20:08:15 -0000 (UTC)
    Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:

    Dunno if this is much use or not for guitar frets, but:

    One of my more useful tools for getting a good wing profile on a model aircraft wing is a 'Great Planes' Easy Touch bar-sander, which I'd guess would also do the job you need.

    Probably not - the perfect fret is round topped with the peak in a
    dead straight line across the fretboard (let's not talk about curved fretboards) at exactly the same height all the way across nice and smooth
    and perfectly flush at the ends. The idea being to stop the string at
    exactly the right distance and not have it buzz against any others.

    Really fine files of various shapes are the usual abrasive tools,
    it's a slow painstaking job and you will be reminded of every single place
    you came short of perfection every time you play the guitar. If your
    immediate response to this is to make another and do it better - rinse and repeat ad infinitum - then one day people will start calling you a
    luthier, otherwise you're probably a musician who will find a luthier to do
    it next time.

    --
    Steve O'Hara-Smith
    Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Martin Gregorie on Mon Aug 29 12:44:51 2022
    On 28/08/2022 21:08, Martin Gregorie wrote:
    On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 17:59:30 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 27/08/2022 22:57, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 20:14:52 +0100 The Natural Philosopher
    <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    I'm building a scratch 12 string electric. Will have to learn all that >>>> stuff.

    The most vital tool you will need is a *really* good straight edge
    longer than the fretboard - although I can't help thinking that in
    these days of cheap lasers it should be possible to arrange a beam with
    a wide level edge to highlight where it needs filing down.

    Saw a video of a pro luthier who had such a beast It was a spirit level
    from a dirt cheap DIY store. He said 'its just as good ' :-)

    Fret rockers will pretty much ID the high spots.

    Dunno if this is much use or not for guitar frets, but:

    One of my more useful tools for getting a good wing profile on a model aircraft wing is a 'Great Planes' Easy Touch bar-sander, which I'd guess would also do the job you need. It is an alloy extrusion in the form of an 840mm x 50mm flat alloy extrusion with a nice 25 x 19 hollow handle
    running its full length. You stick 50mm adhesive sandpaper strip on its
    flat surface and sell for under $10 in the US, though they seem to be in rather short supply ATM.

    Permagrit also do double sided sanding blocks of up to 560mm long, but for around 46 quid.

    Permagrit are great. I tend to have several on the go for MY model
    planes and indeed all sorts of odd other jobs.

    The problem with being too anal about a guitar neck is that the ideal
    shape is in fact not flat, but slightly bowed away from the strings, so
    that fret clearance increases towards the bridge.

    However that is put in afterwards using e string tension that is acting
    against an adjustable truss rod.

    But the truss rod doesn't work so well at the ends, o its traditional to
    have the frets fall away a little towards the bridge...

    Which is why you pay luthiers several hundred dollars to make an average
    guitar play like a million bucks








    --
    "It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing
    conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Mon Aug 29 13:01:03 2022
    On 28/08/2022 22:31, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 20:08:15 -0000 (UTC)
    Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:

    Dunno if this is much use or not for guitar frets, but:

    One of my more useful tools for getting a good wing profile on a model
    aircraft wing is a 'Great Planes' Easy Touch bar-sander, which I'd guess
    would also do the job you need.

    Probably not - the perfect fret is round topped with the peak in a
    dead straight line across the fretboard (let's not talk about curved fretboards) at exactly the same height all the way across nice and smooth
    and perfectly flush at the ends. The idea being to stop the string at
    exactly the right distance and not have it buzz against any others.

    Really fine files of various shapes are the usual abrasive tools,
    it's a slow painstaking job and you will be reminded of every single place you came short of perfection every time you play the guitar. If your immediate response to this is to make another and do it better - rinse and repeat ad infinitum - then one day people will start calling you a
    luthier, otherwise you're probably a musician who will find a luthier to do it next time.


    I think its a but easier to describe the processes in order.
    First of all you want to get the fretboard itself flat in the long
    dimensions and curved to the right radius in the other, right being
    comfortable for YOU.

    Secondly the frets need to be cut and radiused slightly *more* than the fretboard, so that when tapped in with a spot of glue in the middle
    there is no tendency for the ends to lift

    Now you use a fret sanding bar to level the fret tops. Usually by inking
    the frets and sanding gently with a dead flat bar till all the ink has gone.

    Your frets are now level, but the tops are of variable width which
    destroys intonation and 'one point of contact', so the frets need
    *crowning*.

    This consists in marking the frets tops *again* with a sharpie and
    filing the sides so that all that is left of the fret top is a thin
    black sharpie line bang in the middle. This is the bit that stops the
    string.

    Then (having sorted out the sides of the frets so they don't rip your
    hands to pieces) you can polish the frets gently to allow for easy
    smooth string bending.

    In this process you may decide to sand the bridge end frets a little
    more for better string clearance.

    Then you have to set the nut up, and the bridge height and the truss
    rod, and the saddle positions.....

    Its all online, none of it is rocket science, but going through it
    patiently and carefully is - well unusual for most people. You have to
    love the process and be ecstatic about precision. And be guided by past experience - why is a bass string 2.2mm clearance, not 1.5mm? Cos mostly
    that is just enough to stop it buzzing.
    And so on.




    --
    "If you don’t read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
    news paper, you are mis-informed."

    Mark Twain

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Martin Gregorie@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Mon Aug 29 13:34:11 2022
    On Mon, 29 Aug 2022 12:44:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 28/08/2022 21:08, Martin Gregorie wrote:
    On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 17:59:30 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 27/08/2022 22:57, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 20:14:52 +0100 The Natural Philosopher
    <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    I'm building a scratch 12 string electric. Will have to learn all
    that stuff.

    The most vital tool you will need is a *really* good straight edge
    longer than the fretboard - although I can't help thinking that in
    these days of cheap lasers it should be possible to arrange a beam
    with a wide level edge to highlight where it needs filing down.

    Saw a video of a pro luthier who had such a beast It was a spirit
    level from a dirt cheap DIY store. He said 'its just as good ' :-)

    Fret rockers will pretty much ID the high spots.

    Dunno if this is much use or not for guitar frets, but:

    One of my more useful tools for getting a good wing profile on a model
    aircraft wing is a 'Great Planes' Easy Touch bar-sander, which I'd
    guess would also do the job you need. It is an alloy extrusion in the
    form of an 840mm x 50mm flat alloy extrusion with a nice 25 x 19 hollow
    handle running its full length. You stick 50mm adhesive sandpaper strip
    on its flat surface and sell for under $10 in the US, though they seem
    to be in rather short supply ATM.

    Permagrit also do double sided sanding blocks of up to 560mm long, but
    for around 46 quid.

    Permagrit are great. I tend to have several on the go for MY model
    planes and indeed all sorts of odd other jobs.


    I've also used shorter, 12" Permagrit blocks for general modelling use.

    However, when I switched to carbon wings for my F1A competition gliders I needed a much longer, lighter sanding bar and that's when I got one of the Great Planes 33 inch sanding bars.

    Building a set of carbon F1A wings is a lot different from traditional
    wing construction, but basically you assemble all wing panels with the
    ribs a bit tall, and then use the sanding bar to fair the upper surface to exactly match the carbon D-box assembly forming the front of the wing, and
    the carbon strip trailing edge before adding carbon cap strips to the top
    of the ribs.

    These wings are very strong: during a launch you're pulling at least 20 Kg
    on the towline - the minimum allowed weight for an F1A model is is 415g,
    but building a full-race 2.5 m span carbon F1A model, complete with
    electronic d/t timer, radio tracker and circle tow hook that light is
    hard, so minw usually weight 435g or so.

    If you want to see these wings are built, look here:

    https://www.gregorie.org/freeflight/cf_wing/cf_wing.html


    --

    Martin | martin at
    Gregorie | gregorie dot org

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us@3:770/3 to Computer Nerd Kev on Mon Aug 29 20:46:10 2022
    Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
    In the case of the ROCK Pi X I'd be most concerned about the
    omission of a heatsink.

    Mine was purchased with a case that has a thick slab of aluminum on the side nearest the SoC, with a thermal pad facing in (to make contact with the SoC) and some short fins on the outside. I haven't had any thermal issues with
    it in the year and a half (?) I've been running it.

    --
    _/_
    / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
    (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
    \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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