• PCBs available

    From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to All on Thu Oct 12 12:37:39 2023
    The dear chinese sent me 10 PCBs instead of one, so if anyone UK want a
    PCB to build a mains powered power supply with 4 x 250VAC capable relays buffered to suit raspberry PI GPIO current levels....

    Let me know. Correct power supply choice would make it OK for 110V

    http://vps.templar.co.uk/Odds%20and%20Ends/BCD_0025.JPG

    --
    New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
    the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
    someone else's pocket.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Theo@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Thu Oct 12 23:22:20 2023
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    The dear chinese sent me 10 PCBs instead of one, so if anyone UK want a
    PCB to build a mains powered power supply with 4 x 250VAC capable relays buffered to suit raspberry PI GPIO current levels....

    That's a nice board - clear markings, easy to access components, neat power supply. What tool did you use to design it, out of interest?

    Let me know. Correct power supply choice would make it OK for 110V

    I made my own similar board last year - 7 relays, in a much tighter space, mains coils and contacts (but still trying to keep the best isolation I
    could).

    I now need to trigger one mains coil from a Pi without exporting mains or putting any DC wiring in the all-mains enclosure (where I can't get good isolation). Current plan is to make a photo-triac triggered by light from
    an LED on the Pi carried on some optical fibre...

    Theo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Pancho@3:770/3 to Theo on Fri Oct 13 09:06:22 2023
    On 12/10/2023 23:22, Theo wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    The dear chinese sent me 10 PCBs instead of one, so if anyone UK want a
    PCB to build a mains powered power supply with 4 x 250VAC capable relays
    buffered to suit raspberry PI GPIO current levels....

    That's a nice board - clear markings, easy to access components, neat power supply. What tool did you use to design it, out of interest?

    Let me know. Correct power supply choice would make it OK for 110V

    I made my own similar board last year - 7 relays, in a much tighter space, mains coils and contacts (but still trying to keep the best isolation I could).

    I now need to trigger one mains coil from a Pi without exporting mains or putting any DC wiring in the all-mains enclosure (where I can't get good isolation). Current plan is to make a photo-triac triggered by light from
    an LED on the Pi carried on some optical fibre...

    Theo

    I assumed it was a standard board. A 5v/240v relay is a common
    requirement. I used a very similar board, before I switched to using Shelly/Sonoff type devices. It even had 4 relays, when I only wanted one.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Theo@3:770/3 to Pancho on Fri Oct 13 10:18:40 2023
    Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
    I assumed it was a standard board. A 5v/240v relay is a common
    requirement. I used a very similar board, before I switched to using Shelly/Sonoff type devices. It even had 4 relays, when I only wanted one.

    Chinese relay boards aren't uncommon, eg: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262499095094

    - on that one there are optocouplers between the inputs and the relay coils, for some reason (maybe they were cheaper than transistors, or they really
    don't trust the relays' isolation?)

    The nice thing about TNP's board is there's a mains to 5V converter on
    board, which means you can power the board from the mains that you're switching. Otherwise you need to arrange for a separate DC power supply,
    and that gets annoying in a tight space - with this board you don't need a separate power supply for the Pi.

    Theo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Theo on Fri Oct 13 12:21:32 2023
    On 12/10/2023 23:22, Theo wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    The dear chinese sent me 10 PCBs instead of one, so if anyone UK want a
    PCB to build a mains powered power supply with 4 x 250VAC capable relays
    buffered to suit raspberry PI GPIO current levels....

    That's a nice board - clear markings, easy to access components, neat power supply. What tool did you use to design it, out of interest?
    Since when I did this professionally it was black tape on clear film, I
    ended up using Corel Draw! I started with a 3D modelling program to make
    sure the physical bits fitted, then exported the copper to Corel,
    because I am very fluent in it

    I found a CDR to Gerber conversion utility online. That made all the
    difference and it even worked for the legend. The drill file was harder
    but again I found a utility to create that.

    3D printed case is on its way from a good friend. STL files available
    for that as well

    Let me know. Correct power supply choice would make it OK for 110V

    I made my own similar board last year - 7 relays, in a much tighter space, mains coils and contacts (but still trying to keep the best isolation I could).

    I now need to trigger one mains coil from a Pi without exporting mains or putting any DC wiring in the all-mains enclosure (where I can't get good isolation). Current plan is to make a photo-triac triggered by light from
    an LED on the Pi carried on some optical fibre...

    If a discrete optical coupler is a nono that might work.



    Theo

    --
    “A leader is best When people barely know he exists. Of a good leader,
    who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say,
    “We did this ourselves.”

    ― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Theo on Fri Oct 13 12:35:44 2023
    On 13/10/2023 10:18, Theo wrote:
    Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
    I assumed it was a standard board. A 5v/240v relay is a common
    requirement. I used a very similar board, before I switched to using
    Shelly/Sonoff type devices. It even had 4 relays, when I only wanted one.

    Chinese relay boards aren't uncommon, eg: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262499095094

    - on that one there are optocouplers between the inputs and the relay coils, for some reason (maybe they were cheaper than transistors, or they really don't trust the relays' isolation?)

    The nice thing about TNP's board is there's a mains to 5V converter on
    board, which means you can power the board from the mains that you're switching. Otherwise you need to arrange for a separate DC power supply,
    and that gets annoying in a tight space - with this board you don't need a separate power supply for the Pi.

    Theo

    Yes. I was going to cobble it all together from hats, but then it all
    seemed messy.
    If I had thought a bit more I could have made a bigger board and put the
    zero actually ON the main PCB, and eliminated the 6 way plug...

    I am considering just that for the next part of all this - the oil tank ultrasonic level sensor which needs a battery holder, a micropower timer
    to fire the PI Pico up every hour and then shut it down, and the
    ultrasonic transducers. Plus two resistors to drop the supply voltage to something the PICO ADC can handle.

    It seems that the place that does the board just does a whole big sheet
    of copper pcb at one price, so ordering just one doesn't happen. I think
    this was $40 for ten boards.

    Now I don't want a million oil tank sensors, but frankly $40 for a
    single proto board is OK so if I get another 20 thrown in, they will be
    up for grabs too.

    I am not claiming that I can get my discrete parts count down to a mass produced surface mounted HAT, because I cant. But the heating
    controller has to 'see me out' and this looks to be a reasonably
    professional way to use my skills and what eyesight and manual dexterity
    I have left to make a solution that exactly fits what I want.

    And the odd thing is, that 4 transistors of such ancient vintage is
    *cheaper* than a pack of 6 in a DIP or SMD package...

    Anyway, can't wait to put it in its 3D printed case and install it. It
    been hard work but lots of fun too.

    --
    Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
    to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Theo@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Fri Oct 13 13:23:11 2023
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    Since when I did this professionally it was black tape on clear film, I
    ended up using Corel Draw! I started with a 3D modelling program to make
    sure the physical bits fitted, then exported the copper to Corel,
    because I am very fluent in it

    I found a CDR to Gerber conversion utility online. That made all the difference and it even worked for the legend. The drill file was harder
    but again I found a utility to create that.

    Nice. An ex-colleague of mine has a startup which does 'PCB art', ie using
    the PCB medium for artistic design that happens to be a functional circuit: https://boldport.com/

    He has a flow that uses Inkscape for the 'artistry' and then turns it into Gerbers:
    https://github.com/boldport/pcbmode

    but if you don't need any of the schematic/netlist/ERC/DRC/etc support that
    a PCB tool gives you, just hand drawing it in the drawing package works well enough. It's quite a nice idea for making attractive and not-complicated boards.

    I now need to trigger one mains coil from a Pi without exporting mains or putting any DC wiring in the all-mains enclosure (where I can't get good isolation). Current plan is to make a photo-triac triggered by light from an LED on the Pi carried on some optical fibre...

    If a discrete optical coupler is a nono that might work.

    It's a bit annoying... with no DC in the box and not wanting to risk
    exporting mains to the Pi, or making another box with a relay, the obvious option is an optocoupler, but you can't really ensure good isolation unless
    you put it in a good enclosure, which is tricky here because I'm shoving it
    in an existing mains box dangling on flying leads.

    Aha, I thought, you can get optotriacs to switch AC, so what about if I just get a phototriac and shine a light at it to trigger the triac instead of
    having the LED in the optotriac. Trouble is, phototriacs don't exist as a discrete component. So the next plan is to use an LDR (photoresistor) to trigger the gate of a regular triac (street lights use this for the dawn-to-dusk circuit). Only finding an LDR rated for 339Vpeak is tricky, so
    I probably need to voltage divide first...

    I suppose I should just bite the bullet with an optotriac, put it in a
    little case with wire tail connections, and pot it all with some HV safe
    resin. Although the idea of a mains box with just an optical fibre input
    does have its appeal...

    Theo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Andy Burns@3:770/3 to Theo on Fri Oct 13 14:51:18 2023
    Theo wrote:

    It's a bit annoying... with no DC in the box and not wanting to risk exporting mains to the Pi, or making another box with a relay, the
    obvious option is an optocoupler, but you can't really ensure good
    isolation unless you put it in a good enclosure, which is tricky here
    because I'm shoving it in an existing mains box dangling on flying
    leads. Aha, I thought, you can get optotriacs to switch AC, so what
    about if I just get a phototriac and shine a light at it to trigger the
    triac instead of having the LED in the optotriac. Trouble is,
    phototriacs don't exist as a discrete component.

    Can't you "snap" one of these in half?

    <https://cpc.farnell.com/omron-electronic-components/ee-sx4070/opto-switch-slotted/dp/SC12350?>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Theo@3:770/3 to Andy Burns on Fri Oct 13 15:09:41 2023
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
    Theo wrote:

    It's a bit annoying... with no DC in the box and not wanting to risk exporting mains to the Pi, or making another box with a relay, the
    obvious option is an optocoupler, but you can't really ensure good isolation unless you put it in a good enclosure, which is tricky here because I'm shoving it in an existing mains box dangling on flying
    leads. Aha, I thought, you can get optotriacs to switch AC, so what
    about if I just get a phototriac and shine a light at it to trigger the triac instead of having the LED in the optotriac. Trouble is,
    phototriacs don't exist as a discrete component.

    Can't you "snap" one of these in half?

    <https://cpc.farnell.com/omron-electronic-components/ee-sx4070/opto-switch-slotted/dp/SC12350?>

    That's a photodetector (photodiode, amplifier) which has a DC output and
    needs a DC power supply. It can neither switch nor be powered by mains, without extra components. You'd need an AC to DC power supply (either a
    SMPSU module, or DIY a non-isolated PSU with associated risks) and then a circuit to switch an AC mains output (a zero-crossing triac, possibly).

    Makes it much more complicated than it needs to be.

    Theo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Theo on Fri Oct 13 14:35:43 2023
    On 13/10/2023 13:23, Theo wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    Since when I did this professionally it was black tape on clear film, I
    ended up using Corel Draw! I started with a 3D modelling program to make
    sure the physical bits fitted, then exported the copper to Corel,
    because I am very fluent in it

    I found a CDR to Gerber conversion utility online. That made all the
    difference and it even worked for the legend. The drill file was harder
    but again I found a utility to create that.

    Nice. An ex-colleague of mine has a startup which does 'PCB art', ie using the PCB medium for artistic design that happens to be a functional circuit: https://boldport.com/

    He has a flow that uses Inkscape for the 'artistry' and then turns it into Gerbers:
    https://github.com/boldport/pcbmode

    but if you don't need any of the schematic/netlist/ERC/DRC/etc support that
    a PCB tool gives you, just hand drawing it in the drawing package works well enough. It's quite a nice idea for making attractive and not-complicated boards.

    I now need to trigger one mains coil from a Pi without exporting mains or >>> putting any DC wiring in the all-mains enclosure (where I can't get good >>> isolation). Current plan is to make a photo-triac triggered by light from >>> an LED on the Pi carried on some optical fibre...

    If a discrete optical coupler is a nono that might work.

    It's a bit annoying... with no DC in the box and not wanting to risk exporting mains to the Pi, or making another box with a relay, the obvious option is an optocoupler, but you can't really ensure good isolation unless you put it in a good enclosure, which is tricky here because I'm shoving it in an existing mains box dangling on flying leads.

    Aha, I thought, you can get optotriacs to switch AC, so what about if I just get a phototriac and shine a light at it to trigger the triac instead of having the LED in the optotriac. Trouble is, phototriacs don't exist as a discrete component. So the next plan is to use an LDR (photoresistor) to trigger the gate of a regular triac (street lights use this for the dawn-to-dusk circuit). Only finding an LDR rated for 339Vpeak is tricky, so I probably need to voltage divide first...

    I suppose I should just bite the bullet with an optotriac, put it in a
    little case with wire tail connections, and pot it all with some HV safe resin. Although the idea of a mains box with just an optical fibre input does have its appeal...

    Theo
    yes, you have thought it through all right., I didnt think LDRs had a
    'maximum voltage' rating TBH.

    The other possible coupler is RF. Or magnetism outside the box
    triggering something inside. Like a reed relay


    --
    "I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
    This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
    all women"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Theo@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Fri Oct 13 15:24:35 2023
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 13/10/2023 13:23, Theo wrote:
    It's a bit annoying... with no DC in the box and not wanting to risk exporting mains to the Pi, or making another box with a relay, the obvious option is an optocoupler, but you can't really ensure good isolation unless you put it in a good enclosure, which is tricky here because I'm shoving it in an existing mains box dangling on flying leads.

    Aha, I thought, you can get optotriacs to switch AC, so what about if I just
    get a phototriac and shine a light at it to trigger the triac instead of having the LED in the optotriac. Trouble is, phototriacs don't exist as a discrete component. So the next plan is to use an LDR (photoresistor) to trigger the gate of a regular triac (street lights use this for the dawn-to-dusk circuit). Only finding an LDR rated for 339Vpeak is tricky, so
    I probably need to voltage divide first...

    I suppose I should just bite the bullet with an optotriac, put it in a little case with wire tail connections, and pot it all with some HV safe resin. Although the idea of a mains box with just an optical fibre input does have its appeal...

    Theo
    yes, you have thought it through all right., I didnt think LDRs had a 'maximum voltage' rating TBH.

    LDRs are funny because most of them are CdS and cadmium is restricted under RoHS, so the market is a bit limited. Most of the popular (Chinese) ones go
    up to 100-150V. I found a 250V one, but that'll be 250V dc so not rated to handle 240Vac peaks (=339Vdc). Don't want to connect something directly to
    the mains that I'm running out of spec.

    The other possible coupler is RF. Or magnetism outside the box
    triggering something inside. Like a reed relay

    It's a steel box, so magnetism through it is awkward. I thought about RF,
    but the receiver needs a DC power supply - I don't have space for one of
    those 433MHz 'remote control plugs' you find on Amazon, and the steel box
    won't help with the RF.

    I thought about reed relays, but all of the ones available are PCB mount and
    I don't have a PCB.

    I suppose if I'm potting something I could equally as well pot a PCB reed
    relay as an optotriac, and bring out the coil connections to the Pi.
    Although the opto's LED I can connect directly to the Pi, while the coil
    will need a booster transistor.

    Theo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Theo on Fri Oct 13 16:59:39 2023
    On 13/10/2023 15:24, Theo wrote:
    I thought about reed relays, but all of the ones available are PCB mount
    and I don't have a PCB. I suppose if I'm potting something I could
    equally as well pot a PCB reed relay as an optotriac, and bring out the
    coil connections to the Pi. Although the opto's LED I can connect
    directly to the Pi, while the coil will need a booster transistor.

    I am surprised the old glass envelope things don't still exist.

    Mmm. if you google 400V opto-isolator you find many option.
    Phototransistors and phototriacs instead of LDR's


    --
    Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
    foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

    (Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Computer Nerd Kev@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Sat Oct 14 07:58:23 2023
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    It seems that the place that does the board just does a whole big sheet
    of copper pcb at one price, so ordering just one doesn't happen. I think
    this was $40 for ten boards.

    There are some that will do batches of five. They do arrange
    multiple designs onto the same board for etching, so it's not a
    matter of minimum copper area, but they usually make extras in case
    of flaws and 10 + 1 extra would be more cost-efficient for them
    than 1 + 1 extra. I once got a (very) flawed board thrown in amongst
    the others with a big X drawn on it with permanent marker - not sure
    what to think of that.

    Of course sometimes the pricing is just wacky. The first time I
    ordered from one Chinese PCB manufacturer, the price for 105 boards
    was _lower_ than for 100.

    That had been fixed by my second order, and they started slugging
    me with an extra postage charge at the end of check-out then too
    (probably because I'm not in a major city like most customers).

    I still prefer to etch boards myself sometimes, but then I prefer
    doing most things myself if given half a chance.

    --
    __ __
    #_ < |\| |< _#

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Computer Nerd Kev on Sat Oct 14 11:23:27 2023
    On 13/10/2023 22:58, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    It seems that the place that does the board just does a whole big sheet
    of copper pcb at one price, so ordering just one doesn't happen. I think
    this was $40 for ten boards.

    There are some that will do batches of five. They do arrange
    multiple designs onto the same board for etching, so it's not a
    matter of minimum copper area, but they usually make extras in case
    of flaws and 10 + 1 extra would be more cost-efficient for them
    than 1 + 1 extra. I once got a (very) flawed board thrown in amongst
    the others with a big X drawn on it with permanent marker - not sure
    what to think of that.

    Of course sometimes the pricing is just wacky. The first time I
    ordered from one Chinese PCB manufacturer, the price for 105 boards
    was _lower_ than for 100.

    That had been fixed by my second order, and they started slugging
    me with an extra postage charge at the end of check-out then too
    (probably because I'm not in a major city like most customers).

    I still prefer to etch boards myself sometimes, but then I prefer
    doing most things myself if given half a chance.

    I tried, but in the end the cost of what it took me to utterly fail to
    get a board exposed correctly was well in excess of $40.

    The key breakthrough was finding a Corel to Gerber converter: things
    like EagleCAD and friends are just too damned complex with a very steep learning curve.
    Fine for a 10 layer board perhaps, but not for a very simple beast like
    this

    --
    New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
    the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
    someone else's pocket.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Theo@3:770/3 to David Higton on Sat Oct 14 22:13:50 2023
    David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
    In message <yqC*NXHsz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
    Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

    I now need to trigger one mains coil from a Pi without exporting mains or putting any DC wiring in the all-mains enclosure (where I can't get good isolation).

    Would a solid state relay do what you want? They are available for low
    power applications as well as high power.

    The one thing they are not good for is controlling transformer-coupled
    loads.

    Yes, they're basically the optotriac idea but in a Darlington configuration
    and with the snubber network integrated. I agree that does make life
    easier than building the circuit.

    I have a few lying around but they're large bricks, roughly the size of a
    cased Pi. However there appear to be slim 2A SSRs around: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203683359224
    which will likely do the job (minus PCB).

    Theo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From David Higton@3:770/3 to Theo on Sat Oct 14 21:08:02 2023
    In message <yqC*NXHsz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
    Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

    I now need to trigger one mains coil from a Pi without exporting mains or putting any DC wiring in the all-mains enclosure (where I can't get good isolation).

    Would a solid state relay do what you want? They are available for low
    power applications as well as high power.

    The one thing they are not good for is controlling transformer-coupled
    loads.

    David

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Computer Nerd Kev@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Sun Oct 15 09:00:06 2023
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 13/10/2023 22:58, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    I still prefer to etch boards myself sometimes, but then I prefer
    doing most things myself if given half a chance.

    I tried, but in the end the cost of what it took me to utterly fail to
    get a board exposed correctly was well in excess of $40.

    Oh right, yeah those photo-resist kits are expensive. I use the
    toner transfer method, but you need to pick a printer with a
    straight-through paper feed path for that. I tried to turn an
    ink-jet printer into a direct-PCB printer once, but got defeated
    by all the microswitch sensors from the removed paper feeder that
    needed to be triggered at the right moment or else the controler
    would throw an error.

    The key breakthrough was finding a Corel to Gerber converter: things
    like EagleCAD and friends are just too damned complex with a very steep learning curve.
    Fine for a 10 layer board perhaps, but not for a very simple beast like
    this

    Those programs do make it easier to keep within the manufacturing
    specs of the PCB manufacturer though, by checking all the gaps
    between tracks. Things like that are one other reason I prefer to
    just make boards myself rather than deal with Chinglish emails
    about how the silkscreen goes slightly over the edge of the board
    or there's an extra charge because a via was in the wrong place.
    Too much for a one-off DIY project. Although I'll admit that I
    haven't found a good way to line up the pattern on double-sided
    boards when etching them myself, so that's usually frustrating too.

    --
    __ __
    #_ < |\| |< _# | Note: I won't see posts made from Google Groups |

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Computer Nerd Kev on Sun Oct 15 11:28:49 2023
    On 15/10/2023 00:00, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
    Those programs do make it easier to keep within the manufacturing specs
    of the PCB manufacturer though, by checking all the gaps between tracks.

    Probably, but I was doing that years ago, by hand

    Things like that are one other reason I prefer to just make boards
    myself rather than deal with Chinglish emails about how the silkscreen
    goes slightly over the edge of the board or there's an extra charge
    because a via was in the wrong place. Too much for a one-off DIY
    project. Although I'll admit that I haven't found a good way to line up
    the pattern on double-sided boards when etching them myself, so that's usually frustrating too.

    1/. Its easy to register the sides. You just drill some registration
    holes before exposing
    2/. You wont have a silkscreen or vias on a hand etched board.
    3/. Whoever was at the other end of this transaction spoke perfect
    English and seemed to be based in the USA. I suspect he has a chum in a
    pcb plant in china, and gets s slender commission

    I have to say this is the second time I have these these people and it
    has always gone smoothly, if slowly in terms of postage.

    The minimum they require is four Gerber files - the board outline, the
    copper, the silkscreen and the solder mask. And a drill file in the CNC
    format.
    Since i designed the board in Corel using layers for each of the above, alignment was guaranteed.

    Recommended.
    https://dirtypcbs.com/store/pcbs


    --
    There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
    that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
    emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent renewable energy.

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  • From Computer Nerd Kev@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Sun Oct 15 22:22:03 2023
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 15/10/2023 00:00, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
    Things like that are one other reason I prefer to just make boards
    myself rather than deal with Chinglish emails about how the silkscreen
    goes slightly over the edge of the board or there's an extra charge
    because a via was in the wrong place. Too much for a one-off DIY
    project. Although I'll admit that I haven't found a good way to line up
    the pattern on double-sided boards when etching them myself, so that's
    usually frustrating too.

    1/. Its easy to register the sides. You just drill some registration
    holes before exposing

    That doesn't apply for toner transfer where I pre-heat the board
    and then apply the grease paper with the layout printed on it. I
    have tried anchoring corners of the paper but it tends to all go
    wrong (I succeed eventually though).

    2/. You wont have a silkscreen or vias on a hand etched board.

    Can do. The silkscreen is just the same toner transfer process done
    again after etching, and vias can just be wires soldered on either
    side of the board if the holes and tracks are big enough.

    3/. Whoever was at the other end of this transaction spoke perfect
    English and seemed to be based in the USA. I suspect he has a chum in a
    pcb plant in china, and gets s slender commission

    Sounds good. I just like doing things myself at heart.

    --
    __ __
    #_ < |\| |< _# | Note: I won't see posts made from Google Groups |

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Computer Nerd Kev on Sun Oct 15 13:40:14 2023
    On 15/10/2023 13:22, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
    Sounds good. I just like doing things myself at heart.

    So do I, but there are limits to what one can do *well*.


    --
    "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
    that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

    Jonathan Swift.

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