• What do we hate in not only GUIs? (was: What do we hate in (not only Unix) GUIs?)

    From yeti@yeti@tilde.institute to tilde.meta on Wed Sep 25 15:07:30 2024
    And another thing (not only related to GUIs):

    When data and settings are spread over lots of directories, backup,
    migration and synchronisation often are a pain.


    It can be done:

    Evolution has an own builtin backup feature which bundles the config and
    all data including mail Evolution does not consider being remote
    ('~/Maildir' counts as not local, but is easy to backup, so I'm not
    going postal for this) into a compressed Tar bundle.


    Kind of related:

    Since some releases Weechat (TUI) now spreads its config and data over
    some desktop FS standard dot-dirs, Midnight-Commander does that already
    much longer. At least Weechat respects the old single dot-dir and does
    not split it automagically on an update.


    Even GNUS ... odd GNUS?

    And w-t-h does GNUS place stuff outside of '.emacs.d'? For '~/Mail' and '~/News' it may make sense, but for its dot-files?


    Dreams?

    IMO all "Apps" should offer a solution like Evolution or at least an
    easy to find list which directories one should backup/migrate/sync. I'd
    not accept that deeply hidden in some doc as acceptable solution. It
    should be easy to find within seconds.
    --
    4. Hitchhiker 11:
    (72) "Watch the road!'' she yelped.
    (73) "Shit!"
    --- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From ant@ant@tilde.club to tilde.meta on Wed Sep 25 17:10:48 2024
    yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
    And another thing (not only related to GUIs):

    When data and settings are spread over lots of directories, backup,
    migration and synchronisation often are a pain.


    It can be done:

    Evolution has an own builtin backup feature which bundles the config and
    all data including mail Evolution does not consider being remote
    ('~/Maildir' counts as not local, but is easy to backup, so I'm not
    going postal for this) into a compressed Tar bundle.

    Sypheed (a graphical mail client-and-new client), too, is easily
    configured to store both config and data in the same directory.

    Since some releases Weechat (TUI) now spreads its config and data over
    some desktop FS standard dot-dirs, Midnight-Commander does that already
    much longer. At least Weechat respects the old single dot-dir and does
    not split it automagically on an update.

    Sounds bad. What is "FS"?

    Even GNUS ... odd GNUS?

    And w-t-h does GNUS place stuff outside of '.emacs.d'? For '~/Mail' and '~/News' it may make sense, but for its dot-files?

    Tin with default settings shows a similar trend, with some of its
    config /and/ data files tucked neatly under ~/.tin, and some
    under ~ . This is partly fixable by setting a custom $TIN_HOMEDIR
    variable to be used instead of ~ .
    --- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From yeti@yeti@tilde.institute to tilde.meta on Wed Sep 25 18:25:40 2024
    ant@tilde.club writes:

    yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
    And another thing (not only related to GUIs):

    When data and settings are spread over lots of directories, backup,
    migration and synchronisation often are a pain.


    It can be done:

    Evolution has an own builtin backup feature which bundles the config and
    all data including mail Evolution does not consider being remote
    ('~/Maildir' counts as not local, but is easy to backup, so I'm not
    going postal for this) into a compressed Tar bundle.

    Sypheed (a graphical mail client-and-new client), too, is easily
    configured to store both config and data in the same directory.

    \o/ ___( ++! )

    Since some releases Weechat (TUI) now spreads its config and data over
    some desktop FS standard dot-dirs, Midnight-Commander does that already
    much longer. At least Weechat respects the old single dot-dir and does
    not split it automagically on an update.

    Sounds bad. What is "FS"?

    File System.

    Even GNUS ... odd GNUS?

    And w-t-h does GNUS place stuff outside of '.emacs.d'? For '~/Mail' and
    '~/News' it may make sense, but for its dot-files?

    Tin with default settings shows a similar trend, with some of its
    config /and/ data files tucked neatly under ~/.tin, and some
    under ~ . This is partly fixable by setting a custom $TIN_HOMEDIR
    variable to be used instead of ~ .

    The list of subscribed news groups probably is in ~ because other
    news readers use(d) it too.
    --
    I do not bite, I just want to play.
    --- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From ant@ant@tilde.club to tilde.meta on Wed Sep 25 19:30:03 2024
    yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

    The list of subscribed news groups probably is in ~ because other
    news readers use(d) it too.

    Yes, I thought so, from the generic names and structure of those
    files and directories:

    ~/Mail
    ~/News
    ~/.cancelsecret
    ~/.mime.types
    ~/.newsauth
    ~/.newsrc
    ~/.signature
    ~/.Sig
    ~/.sigfixed

    But then I rather prefer the portability of my configuration; and
    Tin's data is still heavily mixed with metadata...
    --- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From yeti@yeti@tilde.institute to tilde.meta on Thu Sep 26 00:23:09 2024
    ant@tilde.club writes:

    ~/.cancelsecret

    . o O ( Cryyyyyy!!! )

    |
    / \

    GNUS puts the cancel stuff in ... guess three times ... not '~/.gnus' or
    an other of the GNUSish files or something in '~/.emacs.d' ... it is in
    the custom variables hidden in '~/.emacs' and so I've lost some of my
    early cancel keys over cleaning up my Emacs configuration.
    --
    1. Hitchhiker 13: (17) "Funny," he intoned funerally, "how just when you
    think life can't possibly get any worse it suddenly does."
    --- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From barnold@barnold@tilde.club to tilde.meta on Thu Sep 26 02:12:44 2024
    On 2024-09-25 Wed 17:10 GMT, ant@tilde.club <ant@tilde.club> wrote:
    Sypheed (a graphical mail client-and-new client), too, is easily
    configured to store both config and data in the same directory.

    But... isn't that inconvenient when your config is kept in version
    control? I guess you could keep your email there too, do people do
    that?
    --
    barnold
    Physician: One upon whom we set our hopes when ill and our dogs when well.
    -- Ambrose Bierce
    --- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Patricia Ferreira@pferreira@example.com to tilde.meta on Thu Sep 26 22:08:47 2024
    yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> writes:

    ant@tilde.club writes:

    yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
    And another thing (not only related to GUIs):

    When data and settings are spread over lots of directories, backup,
    migration and synchronisation often are a pain.


    It can be done:

    Evolution has an own builtin backup feature which bundles the config and >>> all data including mail Evolution does not consider being remote
    ('~/Maildir' counts as not local, but is easy to backup, so I'm not
    going postal for this) into a compressed Tar bundle.

    Sypheed (a graphical mail client-and-new client), too, is easily
    configured to store both config and data in the same directory.

    \o/ ___( ++! )

    Hey. Do you guys use Sylpheed? I like it too, but on my Windows 10, it
    seems not to respect my Windows keyboard configuration. I reported the
    fact at

    https://github.com/sylpheed-mail/sylpheed/issues/42

    I wonder if you guys have any suggestion. Thank you!
    --- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Anton Shepelev@ant@tilde.culb to tilde.meta on Thu Oct 3 00:23:57 2024
    yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
    ant@tilde.club writes:

    ~/.cancelsecret

    . o O ( Cryyyyyy!!! )

    |
    / \

    GNUS puts the cancel stuff in ... guess three times ... not '~/.gnus'
    or an other of the GNUSish files or something in '~/.emacs.d' ... it
    is in the custom variables hidden in '~/.emacs' and so I've lost some
    of my early cancel keys over cleaning up my Emacs configuration.

    Outch and grouch. Do cancel messages make sense in modern Usenet with
    fast propagation?
    --- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Anton Shepelev@ant@tilde.culb to tilde.meta on Thu Oct 3 00:29:39 2024
    Patricia Ferreira <pferreira@example.com> wrote:
    yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> writes:
    ant@tilde.club writes:

    Sypheed (a graphical mail client-and-new client), too, is easily
    configured to store both config and data in the same directory.

    \o/ ___( ++! )

    Hey. Do you guys use Sylpheed? I like it too, but on my Windows 10,
    it seems not to respect my Windows keyboard configuration. I reported
    the fact at

    https://github.com/sylpheed-mail/sylpheed/issues/42

    I wonder if you guys have any suggestion. Thank you! .

    Yes, I use Sylpheed and like it, with both ru and us keyboard layouts on Windows and Linux. Can you make sure they keyboard problem you describe
    is specific to Sylpheed and is not objseved in other GTK2 applications,
    or native X applications, such as Xterm? Chrome is not the best
    reference...
    --- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Anton Shepelev@ant@tilde.culb to tilde.meta on Thu Oct 3 00:33:29 2024
    barnold <barnold@tilde.club> wrote:
    On 2024-09-25 Wed 17:10 GMT, ant@tilde.club <ant@tilde.club> wrote:
    Sypheed (a graphical mail client-and-new client), too, is easily
    configured to store both config and data in the same directory.

    But... isn't that inconvenient when your config is kept in version
    control? I guess you could keep your email there too, do people do
    that?

    I shouldn't like it, for version control for tracking changes, whereas
    e-mail messages are immutable. Keeping config files under version
    control makes more sense, but I have come to that yet, being very new
    to *nix, terminal, scripting, and automation.
    --- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From yeti@yeti@tilde.institute to tilde.meta on Wed Oct 2 22:25:27 2024
    Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb> wrote:

    yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
    ant@tilde.club writes:

    ~/.cancelsecret

    . o O ( Cryyyyyy!!! )
    <o>
    |
    / \

    GNUS puts the cancel stuff in ... guess three times ... not '~/.gnus'
    or an other of the GNUSish files or something in '~/.emacs.d' ... it
    is in the custom variables hidden in '~/.emacs' and so I've lost some
    of my early cancel keys over cleaning up my Emacs configuration.

    Outch and grouch. Do cancel messages make sense in modern Usenet with
    fast propagation?

    In some groups with threads that will be read still in months too it may
    make sense, but sometimes replies come in faster than expected. In most
    cases I need a supersede instead of a cancel, but the same problem is
    the same. So unless it is absolutely necessary to cancel or supersede,
    I "update" my stuff by replying to my own posts now. This has its own drawbacks, e.g. others may reply to one of my posts first and then see
    the update.

    In place changes (supersede, wikis, ...) yield other problems. Version
    control systems to roll back everything are only marginally helpful in discussions, only few readers would look at the history of a VCS-ed
    text.

    There may not be a simple solution for this at all.
    --
    4. Hitchhiker 11:
    (72) "Watch the road!'' she yelped.
    (73) "Shit!"
    --- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Anton Shepelev@ant@tilde.culb to tilde.meta on Thu Oct 3 01:00:04 2024
    yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
    Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb> wrote:

    Outch and grouch. Do cancel messages make sense in modern Usenet with
    fast propagation?

    In some groups with threads that will be read still in months too it may
    make sense, but sometimes replies come in faster than expected. In most cases I need a supersede instead of a cancel, but the same problem is
    the same. So unless it is absolutely necessary to cancel or supersede,
    I "update" my stuff by replying to my own posts now. This has its own drawbacks, e.g. others may reply to one of my posts first and then see
    the update.

    Last time I consulted my Usenet provider about cancel messages, they
    said they were de-factor obsolete because rarely if ever respected on
    severs to which the article has propagated.

    In place changes (supersede, wikis, ...) yield other problems. Version control systems to roll back everything are only marginally helpful in discussions, only few readers would look at the history of a VCS-ed
    text.

    Yes. Version control is mostly for the author.

    There may not be a simple solution for this at all.

    Replying to your own messages seems ok for two reasons:

    1. it encourages your to edit and compose more thoroughly, to save the
    bother of posting errata,

    2. immutable messages somehow seem more genuine.

    In-place ediding is for texts that do not constitute discussion.
    --- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Patricia Ferreira@pferreira@example.com to tilde.meta on Sun Oct 20 21:37:51 2024
    Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb> writes:

    Patricia Ferreira <pferreira@example.com> wrote:
    yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> writes:
    ant@tilde.club writes:

    Sypheed (a graphical mail client-and-new client), too, is easily
    configured to store both config and data in the same directory.

    \o/ ___( ++! )

    Hey. Do you guys use Sylpheed? I like it too, but on my Windows 10,
    it seems not to respect my Windows keyboard configuration. I reported
    the fact at

    https://github.com/sylpheed-mail/sylpheed/issues/42

    I wonder if you guys have any suggestion. Thank you! .

    Yes, I use Sylpheed and like it, with both ru and us keyboard layouts on Windows and Linux. Can you make sure they keyboard problem you describe
    is specific to Sylpheed and is not objseved in other GTK2 applications,
    or native X applications, such as Xterm? Chrome is not the best
    reference...

    Hey. I tried Claws Mail with GTK+ 2.24.33 / GLib 2.66.8.

    --8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
    System Information
    GTK+ 2.24.33 / GLib 2.66.8
    Locale: en_US (charset: ISO-8859-1)
    Operating System: Win32 --8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---

    No problem. It shows ``รง'' just fine. So we cannot put the blame on
    GTK2. So I don't know what it is. By the way, I updated the issue on
    Github:

    https://github.com/sylpheed-mail/sylpheed/issues/42

    No luck. What I find most interesting is that people running the same
    Sylpheed version on Windows 11 are not able to reproduce the problem.

    Thanks for your help! I appreciate it.
    --- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113