• Kids don't like school?

    From Mike Powell@618:250/1 to ALL on Tue Aug 10 16:37:00 2021
    Well, move them to Oregon, where they are going to help all the kids of all
    the colors of the rainbow graduate while being even less prepared to
    advance forward or face the real world. Your kids will love it there.

    https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2021/08/gov-kate-brown-signed-a-law-to- allow-oregon-students-to-graduate-without-proving-they-can-write-or-do-math -she-doesnt-want-to-talk-about-it.html

    https://tinyurl.com/25me8v7n


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  • From Gamgee@618:250/24 to Mike Powell on Tue Aug 10 22:21:00 2021
    Mike Powell wrote to ALL <=-

    Well, move them to Oregon, where they are going to help all the
    kids of all the colors of the rainbow graduate while being even
    less prepared to advance forward or face the real world. Your
    kids will love it there.

    https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2021/08/gov-kate-brown-signed- a-law-to- allow-oregon-students-to-graduate-without-proving-they-can-write-o r-do-math
    -she-doesnt-want-to-talk-about-it.html

    https://tinyurl.com/25me8v7n

    The "leadership" out that way are all idiots. Stupid idiots.

    I'm actually hoping that the "big one" comes soon, and the entire
    western coastal states all break off and disappear into the ocean.



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  • From Arelor@618:250/24 to Gamgee on Wed Aug 11 02:40:04 2021
    Re: Re: Kids don't like school?
    By: Gamgee to Mike Powell on Tue Aug 10 2021 10:21 pm

    The "leadership" out that way are all idiots. Stupid idiots.


    I don't think they are idiots. I think they know very wekll what they are doing.

    They have been raping education into nothingness in Spain since the 80s or so. Even college education was more tough than it used to be. I was lucky enough to be educated in an old-school college which was ran by dinosaurs who used education programs from the 70s - which means the programs were outdated but at least were the real thing.

    If you are a politician, you don't care for the long-term sustainability of the country. You only need to be cool enough in the eyes of your voters in order to get reelected. If you want to purchase parent's votes, an easy way to do it is to tell them their kids are going to have it easy to get to college if you are in office. Most parents want their kids to eventually hit high level education so they will roll happily with it.

    Also, today's parents are pussies and don't want their kids to be stressed by mennial things such as exams and the like and love blaming their kid's failures on somebody else. If their children are failing exams, it must be the system's fault rather than the children's. This makes it easy for politicians to sell them "You are right, we will adjust our system to reasonable standards if you vote me."

    Somebody I know maintains that they are actively trying to provide suboptimal education so people ends up ignorant and stupid, and thus manipulable.

    Long term, this means the country ends up cracking under its own weight, but by the time that happens, the politicians responsible will be long gone to their Peru mansions, enjoying Martinis and hookers while their motherland burns.


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  • From August Abolins@618:250/1.9 to Gamgee on Wed Aug 11 08:23:00 2021
    Hello Gamgee!

    ** On Tuesday 10.08.21 - 22:21, Gamgee wrote to Mike Powell:

    Well, move them to Oregon, where they are going to help
    all the kids of all the colors of the rainbow graduate
    while being even less prepared to advance forward or face
    the real world. Your kids will love it there.

    [...]

    graduate-without-proving-they-can-write-o
    r-do-math-she-doesnt-want-to-talk-about-it.html

    https://tinyurl.com/25me8v7n

    The "leadership" out that way are all idiots. Stupid idiots.

    It's about getting votes. Arelor summarized it nicely.

    But something akin to this started happening in grade schools
    here when they discontinued teaching of cursive writing.
    (That's cursive as in writing "style of penmanship in which
    some characters are written joined together in a flowing
    manner" - not the art of swear words!) hahah!

    When I heard that, I thought, WTF. Cursive writing is often
    the basis of even producing one's signature later in life.
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  • From Gamgee@618:250/24 to Arelor on Wed Aug 11 21:43:00 2021
    Arelor wrote to Gamgee <=-

    The "leadership" out that way are all idiots. Stupid idiots.


    I don't think they are idiots. I think they know very wekll what
    they are doing.

    They have been raping education into nothingness in Spain since
    the 80s or so. Even college education was more tough than it used
    to be. I was lucky enough to be educated in an old-school college
    which was ran by dinosaurs who used education programs from the
    70s - which means the programs were outdated but at least were
    the real thing.

    If you are a politician, you don't care for the long-term
    sustainability of the country. You only need to be cool enough in
    the eyes of your voters in order to get reelected. If you want to
    purchase parent's votes, an easy way to do it is to tell them
    their kids are going to have it easy to get to college if you are
    in office. Most parents want their kids to eventually hit high
    level education so they will roll happily with it.

    Also, today's parents are pussies and don't want their kids to be
    stressed by mennial things such as exams and the like and love
    blaming their kid's failures on somebody else. If their children
    are failing exams, it must be the system's fault rather than the children's. This makes it easy for politicians to sell them "You
    are right, we will adjust our system to reasonable standards if
    you vote me."

    Somebody I know maintains that they are actively trying to
    provide suboptimal education so people ends up ignorant and
    stupid, and thus manipulable.

    Long term, this means the country ends up cracking under its own
    weight, but by the time that happens, the politicians responsible
    will be long gone to their Peru mansions, enjoying Martinis and
    hookers while their motherland burns.


    Great points, and all absolutely right. Perhaps I should have said they
    are EVIL, because that kind of behavior is evil, personified.

    Speaking for the USA, since I don't know the specifics in other
    countries regarding elections and how long one can serve - one of the
    obvious answers is TERM LIMITS. That way the assholes can't work the
    system for decades, getting rich, and screwing people over. The numbers
    can be debated, but something like 5-8 years is all one should be
    allowed to serve, and then go away.



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  • From Gamgee@618:250/24 to August Abolins on Wed Aug 11 21:50:00 2021
    August Abolins wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Well, move them to Oregon, where they are going to help
    all the kids of all the colors of the rainbow graduate
    while being even less prepared to advance forward or face
    the real world. Your kids will love it there.

    The "leadership" out that way are all idiots. Stupid idiots.

    It's about getting votes. Arelor summarized it nicely.

    Yes, he did.

    But something akin to this started happening in grade schools
    here when they discontinued teaching of cursive writing.
    (That's cursive as in writing "style of penmanship in which
    some characters are written joined together in a flowing
    manner" - not the art of swear words!) hahah!

    When I heard that, I thought, WTF. Cursive writing is often
    the basis of even producing one's signature later in life.

    Agreed. I'm old enough to have learned cursive writing in school. I
    will have to say that I have *VERY* rarely ever wanted/needed to use it, though. Other than signatures of course. I'm kinda on the fence on
    whether it's worth taking all that time to teach a kid how to do it.
    Would that class time be better spent on teaching them how to balance a checkbook/debit account, do basic income tax preparation, basic cooking skills, etc etc...? I never took it as a kid, but I remember some kind
    of elective course called "home economics" being offered. Seems like
    kids today don't know much about how to actually operate in the real
    world.



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  • From Kurt Weiske@618:300/1 to Gamgee on Wed Aug 11 09:31:00 2021
    Gamgee wrote to Mike Powell <=-

    I'm actually hoping that the "big one" comes soon, and the entire
    western coastal states all break off and disappear into the ocean.

    My family's cabin near Donner Summit (elevation 7122, about 180 miles
    inland) would make nice beachfront property, and quite near the soon-to-be Nevada free-trade territories, post USA.




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  • From Kurt Weiske@618:300/1 to Arelor on Wed Aug 11 09:36:00 2021
    Arelor wrote to Gamgee <=-


    I don't think they are idiots. I think they know very wekll what they
    are doing.

    They have been raping education into nothingness in Spain since the 80s
    or so. Even college education was more tough than it used to be. I was lucky enough to be educated in an old-school college which was ran by dinosaurs who used education programs from the 70s - which means the programs were outdated but at least were the real thing.

    And they probably cost a fraction of what they cost today. In the USA,
    college tuitions have increased orders of magnitude greater than the cost of living has risen, private college endowments can reach the billions of dollars, and instead of re-investing in education, are making schools more exclusive to justify the tuition increases.


    Somebody I know maintains that they are actively trying to provide suboptimal education so people ends up ignorant and stupid, and thus manipulable.

    Some people see Brave New World as a primer.

    Long term, this means the country ends up cracking under its own
    weight, but by the time that happens, the politicians responsible will
    be long gone to their Peru mansions, enjoying Martinis and hookers
    while their motherland burns.

    Do the crime, get caught, get a slap on the wrist, and the money's all gone
    - either used to lobby politicians or shipped offshore.


    ... A closed system lacks the ability to renew itself.
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  • From Kurt Weiske@618:300/1 to August Abolins on Wed Aug 11 09:41:00 2021
    August Abolins wrote to Gamgee <=-

    When I heard that, I thought, WTF. Cursive writing is often
    the basis of even producing one's signature later in life.

    My 11 year-old daughter learned cursive in a parochial school and enjoys it
    - she's a creative one and loves to write.

    My 18 year-old son never learned, and he's having to hack together a
    signature now that he's legally an adult.

    He has a bizarre way of holding the pencil between his thumb, index and ring finger that's very slow, and he's a poor note-taker because of it (and
    claims that it's too late to change).

    I've tried to inform him that he'll be writing all his life and the earlier he's comfortable with it, the better.

    Oddly, he's not alone. I've seen other kids holding pencils the same way.

    I'm left-handed, was taught to orient the paper the way a right-hander does, so I hook my hand over the writing - which has resulted in a lifetime of smeared writing and poor cursive.

    I never took typing classes in high school, so I hunt-and-peck, albeit very quickly.

    I'd hope the next generation would learn from my mistakes, but no... :)






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  • From Sean Dennis@618:618/10 to August Abolins on Thu Aug 12 15:38:04 2021
    August Abolins wrote to Gamgee <=-

    When I heard that, I thought, WTF. Cursive writing is often
    the basis of even producing one's signature later in life.

    I have often joked to my peers that if we all started using cursive and driving stickshifts, we'd lose a generation (or two).

    I have sadly discovered that I am not writing cursive enough and I have forgotten how to write some letters though with a bit of practice, it all comes back for a bit.

    I also love writing with fountain pens so I guess I may be a bit eccentric too.

    -- Sean

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  • From Arelor@618:250/24 to Gamgee on Thu Aug 12 15:36:39 2021
    Re: Re: Kids don't like school?
    By: Gamgee to Arelor on Wed Aug 11 2021 09:43 pm

    Speaking for the USA, since I don't know the specifics in other
    countries regarding elections and how long one can serve - one of the obvious answers is TERM LIMITS. That way the assholes can't work the
    system for decades, getting rich, and screwing people over. The numbers
    can be debated, but something like 5-8 years is all one should be
    allowed to serve, and then go away.


    I agree with term limits. We don't have them in Spain and it causes some ugly problems in local and
    autonomic governments which keep the same leader for decades.

    When one of these long standing leaders gets eventually replaced after an ellection, they
    invariably find lots and lots of irregularities and corruption piled up from years and years of
    sitting on the throne. I don't know why people acts surprised when that happens.

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  • From Arelor@618:250/24 to Gamgee on Thu Aug 12 15:46:20 2021
    Re: Re: Kids don't like school?
    By: Gamgee to August Abolins on Wed Aug 11 2021 09:50 pm

    Agreed. I'm old enough to have learned cursive writing in school. I
    will have to say that I have *VERY* rarely ever wanted/needed to use it, though. Other than
    signatures of course. I'm kinda on the fence on
    whether it's worth taking all that time to teach a kid how to do it.
    Would that class time be better spent on teaching them how to balance a checkbook/debit account
    do basic income tax preparation, basic cooking skills, etc etc...? I never took it as a kid, b
    I remember some kind
    of elective course called "home economics" being offered. Seems like
    kids today don't know much about how to actually operate in the real
    world.


    I didn't learn how to read and write in school. The school plans were damn slow so my parents just
    taught me themselves.

    During Spain's Fascist days they offered some "home education" in school, I think. They taught
    girls how to sew and patch clothes and such. In my father's school they taught boys how to be a
    good Spaniard by marching like a proper soldier and hailing the flag :-)

    The Party's training camps sounded actually great. They ran like Boy Scout's, except they were
    militarized and kids were given a big badass machete. The officer of each unit was given an actual
    gun with ammo. I still have my grandpa's regulatory machete from his camp, actually.

    It is when you listen to those stories of old when you realize what sort of thing has been lost. I
    used to hear tales about buys who were released in some forest and instructed to reach some far
    away location. "By the end of the week, the other boys in the squad were like your fuckign
    brothers!"

    I am happy we no longer have to be careful about the wrong person listening to us when we mooked
    the Leader's moustache, but I cannot stop realizing we have gone soft.

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  • From Sean Dennis@618:618/10 to Arelor on Thu Aug 12 18:53:05 2021
    Hello Arelor,

    Thursday August 12 2021 15:46, you wrote to Gamgee:

    I am happy we no longer have to be careful about the wrong person
    listening to us when we mooked the Leader's moustache, but I cannot
    stop realizing we have gone soft.

    We're starting to feel like it's 1938 Nazi Germany here in the US.

    -- Sean

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  • From August Abolins@618:250/1.9 to Kurt Weiske on Thu Aug 12 19:41:00 2021
    Hello Kurt!

    ** On Wednesday 11.08.21 - 09:41, you wrote to me:

    I'm left-handed, was taught to orient the paper the way a
    right-hander does, so I hook my hand over the writing -
    which has resulted in a lifetime of smeared writing and
    poor cursive.

    Lefty here too.

    One day, (I couldn't have been older than 7 or 8) my parents
    tried to insist that I should write with my right hand. I was
    afterall right-handed in every other way: holding a bat, a gun,
    a bow, throwing a ball, etc. They gave me home writing
    lessons, but I simply switched to my left hand when they walked
    out of the room and I switched back to the right when they
    walked in. One day I got really really tired of that, and
    confessed. But the brief foray (about a couple of hours for a
    week) into forced right-handed writing kind of produced a
    modest ambidextrous trait in me. Occassionaly, I would switch
    to my right hand just for fun.

    I never took typing classes in high school, so I hunt-and-
    peck, albeit very quickly.

    Typing was an easy Gr 9 course. It also proved to be very
    useful later on. But one thing that I really appreciate
    learning later in high-school was Forkner shorthand. That
    proved helpful when taking notes in university.



    --
    ../|ug

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  • From Gamgee@618:250/24 to Kurt Weiske on Thu Aug 12 21:24:00 2021
    Kurt Weiske wrote to Gamgee <=-

    I'm actually hoping that the "big one" comes soon, and the entire
    western coastal states all break off and disappear into the ocean.

    My family's cabin near Donner Summit (elevation 7122, about 180
    miles inland) would make nice beachfront property, and quite near
    the soon-to-be Nevada free-trade territories, post USA.

    Haha! Well, it would likely increase the value of your cabin and land
    quite a bit. ;-)

    That is indeed a beautiful place, used to pass through Donner fairly regularly, a half a lifetime ago.



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  • From Gamgee@618:250/24 to Arelor on Thu Aug 12 21:27:00 2021
    Arelor wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Speaking for the USA, since I don't know the specifics in other
    countries regarding elections and how long one can serve - one of the obvious answers is TERM LIMITS. That way the assholes can't work the
    system for decades, getting rich, and screwing people over. The numbers
    can be debated, but something like 5-8 years is all one should be
    allowed to serve, and then go away.

    I agree with term limits. We don't have them in Spain and it
    causes some ugly problems in local and autonomic governments
    which keep the same leader for decades.

    When one of these long standing leaders gets eventually replaced
    after an ellection, they invariably find lots and lots of
    irregularities and corruption piled up from years and years of
    sitting on the throne. I don't know why people acts surprised
    when that happens.

    Yep, should not be a surprise.

    The problem, of course, is that for term limits to become law, the
    legislation would have to be written and passed by the very ones who
    would then be immediately tossed out of office. The classic paradox if
    there ever was one. Very unfortunate circumstance, and the primary
    reason that the limits will likely never come to reality.



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  • From August Abolins@618:250/1.9 to Gamgee on Fri Aug 13 22:02:00 2021
    Hello Gamgee!

    ** On Wednesday 11.08.21 - 21:50, you wrote:

    [...] Cursive writing is often the basis of even
    producing one's signature later in life.

    Agreed. I'm old enough to have learned cursive writing in
    school. I will have to say that I have *VERY* rarely ever
    wanted/needed to use it, though.

    When I first dicovered cursive writing.. I was like "WoW!.. and
    I don't have to take my pen off the paper for each letter
    anymore!" For me, I realized that it was a faster way to
    write anything, so I used it most of the time.

    Sometime after university, I reverted back to printing, and all
    in caps.


    [...] I'm kinda on the fence on whether it's worth taking
    all that time to teach a kid how to do it.

    Would you be averse to demonstrate that cursive can have
    application in improving speed of writing?


    [...] Seems like kids today don't know much about how to
    actually operate in the real world.

    They probably don't see the need while they are living at home
    and when everything is done for them?

    Many of the curriculum books are popular since the covid thing
    forced people to teach or study at home. I recently brought in
    a Gr 8 Math curriculm for a customer. Looking through that a
    lot of the stuff about cartesian coordiates, fractions,
    calculating volumes etc.. all looked quite familiar. Except for
    calculating volumes, not much of that other stuff seemed to
    have any application later in my life. But I personally
    enjoyed the math challenges.
    --
    ../|ug

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  • From Sean Dennis@618:618/10 to August Abolins on Sat Aug 14 01:35:17 2021
    Hello August,

    Friday August 13 2021 22:02, you wrote to Gamgee:

    Would you be averse to demonstrate that cursive can have
    application in improving speed of writing?

    I know I can write faster in cursive since I don't have to take my pen off the paper as often. I also write cursive with a fountain pen which glides smoother over the paper than a ballpoint pen and that helps! My favorite fountain pen is a fine-nib Lamy Safari followed by a fine-nib Pilot Metropolitan. The Safari's German "fine" is much bolder than the Pilot's Japanese "fine". Lamy does make an extra-fine nibbed Lamy Safari which I want to try.

    Many of the curriculum books are popular since the covid thing
    forced people to teach or study at home. I recently brought in
    a Gr 8 Math curriculm for a customer. Looking through that a
    lot of the stuff about cartesian coordiates, fractions,
    calculating volumes etc.. all looked quite familiar. Except for calculating volumes, not much of that other stuff seemed to
    have any application later in my life. But I personally
    enjoyed the math challenges.

    I do use math in amateur radio quite often, whether it's designing antennas or figuring out the best bearing to turn my antenna to so I can make an international contact. But besides using arithmetic when going grocery shopping or doubling a recipe, nope, no math.

    -- Sean

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