Hi,
For people who don't hang out in the chatrooms, there been a netsplit
in IRC servers. And I am sure that the admins are doing their best to
resolve the issue.
This makes me realize the amount of thankless work the admins have been
doing for years making sure everything runs smoothly. It's almost like
a full time job. And I think this is a great time to reflect back and
thank the admins for doing such a great job.
Kudos.
Annada
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

Annada Behera <annada@tilde.green> wrote:

This makes me realize the amount of thankless work the admins have been
doing for years making sure everything runs smoothly. It's almost like
a full time job. And I think this is a great time to reflect back and
thank the admins for doing such a great job.

I have yet to learn to appreciate the effort they put into providing
all these services /gratis/ for us play and have fun and enjoy our
little projects and communities. You are right, Annada, and thanks
for the reminder.

We sinners are used to taking things for granted, and to become
disappointed when we loose them. After the Stoic philoshers, let us
bear in mind that these things were never truly ours to begin with,
and be grateful while we have them.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb> wrote:

I have yet to learn to appreciate the effort they put into providing
all these services /gratis/ for us play and have fun and enjoy our
little projects and communities.

I wish they'd do less. They run far too many services and some are too similar, so these start competing for users.

This seems to be a common trap for pubnixens and similar projects with
other names, and then the users disperse over far too many services and
nearly every of these sub-communities turns into a lonely place.
--
C-x C-c

Oops!
Wrong window!
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb> wrote:

I have yet to learn to appreciate the effort they put into providing
all these services /gratis/ for us play and have fun and enjoy our
little projects and communities.

I wish they'd do less. They run far too many services and some are too similar, so these start competing for users.

This seems to be a common trap for pubnixens and similar projects with
other names, and then the users disperse over far too many services and nearly every of these sub-communities turns into a lonely place.

I think you mean not any services, but communication serves, such as
NNTP, IRC, BBJ, e-mail... Right? And then every other tilde has more
that one form that list, with its own groups and channels. This is
indeed creating a granularity, especially because technological
advancements make them increasingly easier and cheaper to maintain.
Couple that with the the realtively few users and voila -- you got tiny isolated nanosocieties.

Unfortunately and sad though it may sound, charging a fee may help,
because people tend to value more what they have to pay for. What other remedies can you think of?
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb> wrote:

What other remedies can you think of?

Let's create "Peernixens" on hardware we run at home. Ok, maybe someone
wants to do it on a VPS, but average Jill might prefer to give the RasPi
that has gotten boring and now is only collecting dust a new job. ;-)
--
I do not bite, I just want to play.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb> wrote:

What other remedies can you think of?

Let's create "Peernixens" on hardware we run at home. Ok, maybe someone wants to do it on a VPS, but average Jill might prefer to give the RasPi
that has gotten boring and now is only collecting dust a new job. ;-)

How will it contribute to the re-consolidation of the community?
I have also considered a pieceful and voluntary merging of Tildes,
to end up with fewer well-populated ones... Silly me.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb> wrote:

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb> wrote:

What other remedies can you think of?

Let's create "Peernixens" on hardware we run at home. Ok, maybe someone
wants to do it on a VPS, but average Jill might prefer to give the RasPi
that has gotten boring and now is only collecting dust a new job. ;-)

How will it contribute to the re-consolidation of the community?
I have also considered a pieceful and voluntary merging of Tildes,
to end up with fewer well-populated ones... Silly me.

That wasn't meant to "save" Pubnixens. I think a parallel universe in
an overlay network (I2P?) in the first step based on mail(inglists)/news
might be a good start. Even those could be unified, maybe with
e.g. IMAP as back-end. Everything else could be auto published (NEX,
HTTP, ...) from those folders/groups, replicated and whatnot.

Original Fediverse rebooted?

The clicycolour fans could add JS front-ends to all this if they think
good old static text is far too safe to have fun. But the shared
back-ends would keep even those connected to the others.

I have no idea about existing Pubnixens. Even the biggest ones that
demand payment for some or all of their features are lonely places
inside because of user fragmentation over too many services.
--
I do not bite, I just want to play.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

Original Fediverse rebooted?

Interoperability is what made the networks attractive; the modern divide
and conquer now kill them.
--
I do not bite, I just want to play.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

Original Fediverse rebooted?

Interoperability is what made the networks attractive; the modern divide
and conquer now kill them.

I run mail-over-nncp and netnews-over-uucp (but would love to switch over
to nncp); I run IRC using ngircd – three candidates for networking if
anybody is interested to hook up to campaignwiki.org.

--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

Alex Schroeder <kensanata@cosmic.voyage> wrote:

I run mail-over-nncp and netnews-over-uucp (but would love to switch over
to nncp); I run IRC using ngircd – three candidates for networking if anybody is interested to hook up to campaignwiki.org.

UUCP needs to configure each non-anonymous connection on both sides.
That's a nightmare for communities of more that 1-2 hands full. Same
for Tinc-VPN.

I'm looking more for an overlay network that's a bit more "open" while
not being written C or C++.

Tor currently fits that profile, but they will switch to Rust.

I2PD uses C++ and may be my go to solution for such when ARTI is the
only maintained Tor release.

I'll have look at NNCP when a C port shows up. ;-)
--
I do not bite, I just want to play.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

Alex Schroeder <kensanata@cosmic.voyage> wrote:

I run mail-over-nncp and netnews-over-uucp (but would love to switch over
to nncp); I run IRC using ngircd – three candidates for networking if anybody is interested to hook up to campaignwiki.org.

UUCP needs to configure each non-anonymous connection on both sides.
That's a nightmare for communities of more that 1-2 hands full. Same
for Tinc-VPN.

I'm looking more for an overlay network that's a bit more "open" and
being written in C or C++.

Tor currently fits that profile, but they will switch to Rust.

I2PD uses C++ and may be my go to solution for such when ARTI is the
only maintained Tor release.

I'll have look at NNCP when a C port shows up.
--
I do not bite, I just want to play.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

UUCP needs to configure each non-anonymous connection on both sides.
That's a nightmare for communities of more that 1-2 hands full. Same
for Tinc-VPN.

…

I'll have look at NNCP when a C port shows up.

I suspect that it won’t be to your liking.

Using NNCP is primarily an allow-list based network. You cannot reach
unknown computers; you cannot route via unknown computers; your route
cannot be optimized by others for you. Only the computers you exchange keys with are computers you can contact. Unless, of course, the computer you
reached redistributes decoded messages, like a news server. So it’s not necessarily allow-list based but if you’re thinking about sending files or email, you can only do it for people on known computers.

--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

Alex Schroeder <kensanata@cosmic.voyage> wrote:

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

UUCP needs to configure each non-anonymous connection on both sides.
That's a nightmare for communities of more that 1-2 hands full. Same
for Tinc-VPN.

…

I'll have look at NNCP when a C port shows up.

I suspect that it won’t be to your liking.

Using NNCP is primarily an allow-list based network. You cannot reach
unknown computers; you cannot route via unknown computers; your route
cannot be optimized by others for you. Only the computers you exchange keys with are computers you can contact.

I played with UUCP over TCP (and outside my LAN additionally Tor) a
while ago and it already was a pain with less than 10 nodes. There was something node-list based to add more automagism into multi hop routing,
but I did not get that far with UUCP. Probably the hurdle to join such
a setup just is too high for end-users looking for something internet
like as an own parallel dimension (Yggdrasil, I2P, ...).
--
I do not bite, I just want to play.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

-----Original Message-----
From: Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb>
Subject: Re: Tildeverse IRC has split into different islands.
Date: 10/12/2024 02:42:48 AM
Newsgroups: tilde.meta

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb> wrote:

I have yet to learn to appreciate the effort they put into providing all >>>these services /gratis/ for us play and have fun and enjoy our little >>>projects and communities.

I wish they'd do less.  They run far too many services and some are
too similar, so these start competing for users.

This seems to be a common trap for pubnixens and similar projects with >>other names, and then the users disperse over far too many services and >>nearly every of these sub-communities turns into a lonely place.

I think you mean not any services, but communication serves, such as NNTP, >>IRC, BBJ, e-mail... Right?  And then every other tilde has more that one >>form that list, with its own groups and channels. This is indeed creating
a granularity, especially because technological advancements make them >>increasingly easier and cheaper to maintain. Couple that with the the >>realtively few users and voila -- you got tiny isolated nanosocieties.

Unfortunately and sad though it may sound, charging a fee may help,
because people tend to value more what they have to pay for.  What
other remedies can you think of?

What I want to purpose is that the admins discuss and distrubute hosting different services among different tildes. For example, instead of
everybody running their own phpBB, maybe one of the tildes can run
phpBB and users from all around the ~verse can use it. In that case,
we won't have tiny isolated nanosocieties in the individual tildeverse
members. One tilde runs a XMPP, another runs a Fediverse, yet another
brigdes with Usenet, another runs git-forgejo, etc. Less work for admins
and more consolidated communities and discussion.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

I, for example, don't have that level of trust into the other tildes. So
it is good as it is. Tilde.club is doing a good job.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

keyboardan <keyboardan@tilde.club> wrote:

I, for example, don't have that level of trust into the other tildes. So
it is good as it is. Tilde.club is doing a good job.

If the users of other tildes have have the same attitude, isolation
ensues...
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb> writes:

keyboardan <keyboardan@tilde.club> wrote:

I, for example, don't have that level of trust into the other tildes. So
it is good as it is. Tilde.club is doing a good job.

If the users of other tildes have have the same attitude, isolation
ensues...

I know what you are feeling. But, if you had the experience of a tilde admin/moderator telling you on the other's IRC network, that it is not
safe to have discussion of some topic on that IRC network, you would
think a bit different, and know why I have this stance.

They are banning discourse on other tilde's. Other tilde's are managed
by modern days Nazis.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

keyboardan <keyboardan@tilde.club> wrote:

Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb> writes:

keyboardan <keyboardan@tilde.club> wrote:

I, for example, don't have that level of trust into the other tildes. So >>>it is good as it is. Tilde.club is doing a good job.

If the users of other tildes have have the same attitude, isolation
ensues...

I know what you are feeling. But, if you had the experience of a tilde >admin/moderator telling you on the other's IRC network, that it is not
safe to have discussion of some topic on that IRC network,

Not safe in what sense? All you risk is a ban, right?

you would think a bit different, and know why I have this stance.

I have not tried it: I have abstained from raising risky topics myself. Perhaps, these should be allowed is dedicated channels.

They are banning discourse on other tilde's. Other tilde's are managed
by modern days Nazis.

I wish you would not use so strong a name: there is much more to Nazism
than a strong centralised censorship.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb> writes:

keyboardan <keyboardan@tilde.club> wrote:

Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb> writes:

keyboardan <keyboardan@tilde.club> wrote:

I, for example, don't have that level of trust into the other tildes. So >>>>it is good as it is. Tilde.club is doing a good job.

If the users of other tildes have have the same attitude, isolation
ensues...

I know what you are feeling. But, if you had the experience of a tilde >>admin/moderator telling you on the other's IRC network, that it is not
safe to have discussion of some topic on that IRC network,

Not safe in what sense? All you risk is a ban, right?

I heard they were sharing information to outside parties... It was
enough for me to be upset and not go back there again.

They are banning discourse on other tilde's. Other tilde's are managed
by modern days Nazis.

I wish you would not use so strong a name: there is much more to Nazism
than a strong centralised censorship.

Okay. I mean they are not in favour of free speech.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

On 2024-10-15, keyboardan <keyboardan@tilde.club> wrote:

Okay. I mean they are not in favour of free speech.

I don't know what topics you want to discuss that are not allowed on
these chat servers, but why don't you find 4-5 people who are also
interested in those topics, and together with them make your own
discussion group? That seems a lot easier to me. Alternatively, if you
can't find 4 people who are also interested, maybe you are interested in
topics that do not appeal to other people
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

say@tilde.club writes:

On 2024-10-15, keyboardan <keyboardan@tilde.club> wrote:

Okay. I mean they are not in favour of free speech.

I don't know what topics you want to discuss that are not allowed on
these chat servers, but why don't you find 4-5 people who are also
interested in those topics, and together with them make your own
discussion group? That seems a lot easier to me. Alternatively, if you
can't find 4 people who are also interested, maybe you are interested in topics that do not appeal to other people

Yes and no. Sometimes it is better to stay quiet. Like with your reply.
So, you lost that chance.

Also, I am not interested what someone with a generic nickname such as
"say" has to say. So yeah, it is you who needs to find your own 4 or 5
people to chat with.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

keyboardan <keyboardan@tilde.club> wrote:

say@tilde.club writes:

On 2024-10-15, keyboardan <keyboardan@tilde.club> wrote:

Okay. I mean they are not in favour of free speech.

I don't know what topics you want to discuss that are not allowed on
these chat servers, but why don't you find 4-5 people who are also
interested in those topics, and together with them make your own
discussion group? That seems a lot easier to me. Alternatively, if you
can't find 4 people who are also interested, maybe you are interested in
topics that do not appeal to other people

Yes and no. Sometimes it is better to stay quiet. Like with your reply.
So, you lost that chance.

So have you.

_o/"

Also, I am not interested what someone with a generic nickname such as
"say" has to say. So yeah, it is you who needs to find your own 4 or 5
people to chat with.

.
--
1. Hitchhiker 25: (64) "What's the problem?" said Lunkwill. (65) "I'll
tell you what the problem is mate," said Majikthise, "demarcation,
that's the problem!" (66) "We demand," yelled Vroomfondel, "that demarcation may or may not be the problem!"
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> writes:

keyboardan <keyboardan@tilde.club> wrote:

say@tilde.club writes:

On 2024-10-15, keyboardan <keyboardan@tilde.club> wrote:

Okay. I mean they are not in favour of free speech.

I don't know what topics you want to discuss that are not allowed on
these chat servers, but why don't you find 4-5 people who are also
interested in those topics, and together with them make your own
discussion group? That seems a lot easier to me. Alternatively, if you
can't find 4 people who are also interested, maybe you are interested in >>> topics that do not appeal to other people

Yes and no. Sometimes it is better to stay quiet. Like with your reply.
So, you lost that chance.

So have you.

_o/"

I am not the one saying to cancel yourself up, like say is.

Also, I am not interested what someone with a generic nickname such as
"say" has to say. So yeah, it is you who needs to find your own 4 or 5
people to chat with.

.

--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113