This makes me realize the amount of thankless work the admins have been
doing for years making sure everything runs smoothly. It's almost like
a full time job. And I think this is a great time to reflect back and
thank the admins for doing such a great job.
I have yet to learn to appreciate the effort they put into providing
all these services /gratis/ for us play and have fun and enjoy our
little projects and communities.
Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb> wrote:
I have yet to learn to appreciate the effort they put into providing
all these services /gratis/ for us play and have fun and enjoy our
little projects and communities.
I wish they'd do less. They run far too many services and some are too similar, so these start competing for users.
This seems to be a common trap for pubnixens and similar projects with
other names, and then the users disperse over far too many services and nearly every of these sub-communities turns into a lonely place.
What other remedies can you think of?
Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb> wrote:
What other remedies can you think of?
Let's create "Peernixens" on hardware we run at home. Ok, maybe someone wants to do it on a VPS, but average Jill might prefer to give the RasPi
that has gotten boring and now is only collecting dust a new job. ;-)
yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb> wrote:
What other remedies can you think of?
Let's create "Peernixens" on hardware we run at home. Ok, maybe someone
wants to do it on a VPS, but average Jill might prefer to give the RasPi
that has gotten boring and now is only collecting dust a new job. ;-)
How will it contribute to the re-consolidation of the community?
I have also considered a pieceful and voluntary merging of Tildes,
to end up with fewer well-populated ones... Silly me.
Original Fediverse rebooted?
yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
Original Fediverse rebooted?
Interoperability is what made the networks attractive; the modern divide
and conquer now kill them.
I run mail-over-nncp and netnews-over-uucp (but would love to switch over
to nncp); I run IRC using ngircd – three candidates for networking if anybody is interested to hook up to campaignwiki.org.
I run mail-over-nncp and netnews-over-uucp (but would love to switch over
to nncp); I run IRC using ngircd – three candidates for networking if anybody is interested to hook up to campaignwiki.org.
UUCP needs to configure each non-anonymous connection on both sides.
That's a nightmare for communities of more that 1-2 hands full. Same
for Tinc-VPN.
…
I'll have look at NNCP when a C port shows up.
yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
UUCP needs to configure each non-anonymous connection on both sides.
That's a nightmare for communities of more that 1-2 hands full. Same
for Tinc-VPN.
…
I'll have look at NNCP when a C port shows up.
I suspect that it won’t be to your liking.
Using NNCP is primarily an allow-list based network. You cannot reach
unknown computers; you cannot route via unknown computers; your route
cannot be optimized by others for you. Only the computers you exchange keys with are computers you can contact.
What I want to purpose is that the admins discuss and distrubute hosting different services among different tildes. For example, instead ofyeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb> wrote:
I have yet to learn to appreciate the effort they put into providing all >>>these services /gratis/ for us play and have fun and enjoy our little >>>projects and communities.
I wish they'd do less. They run far too many services and some are
too similar, so these start competing for users.
This seems to be a common trap for pubnixens and similar projects with >>other names, and then the users disperse over far too many services and >>nearly every of these sub-communities turns into a lonely place.
I think you mean not any services, but communication serves, such as NNTP, >>IRC, BBJ, e-mail... Right? And then every other tilde has more that one >>form that list, with its own groups and channels. This is indeed creating
a granularity, especially because technological advancements make them >>increasingly easier and cheaper to maintain. Couple that with the the >>realtively few users and voila -- you got tiny isolated nanosocieties.
Unfortunately and sad though it may sound, charging a fee may help,
because people tend to value more what they have to pay for. What
other remedies can you think of?
I, for example, don't have that level of trust into the other tildes. So
it is good as it is. Tilde.club is doing a good job.
keyboardan <keyboardan@tilde.club> wrote:
I, for example, don't have that level of trust into the other tildes. So
it is good as it is. Tilde.club is doing a good job.
If the users of other tildes have have the same attitude, isolation
ensues...
Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb> writes:
keyboardan <keyboardan@tilde.club> wrote:
I, for example, don't have that level of trust into the other tildes. So >>>it is good as it is. Tilde.club is doing a good job.
If the users of other tildes have have the same attitude, isolation
ensues...
I know what you are feeling. But, if you had the experience of a tilde >admin/moderator telling you on the other's IRC network, that it is not
safe to have discussion of some topic on that IRC network,
you would think a bit different, and know why I have this stance.
They are banning discourse on other tilde's. Other tilde's are managed
by modern days Nazis.
keyboardan <keyboardan@tilde.club> wrote:
Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb> writes:
keyboardan <keyboardan@tilde.club> wrote:
I, for example, don't have that level of trust into the other tildes. So >>>>it is good as it is. Tilde.club is doing a good job.
If the users of other tildes have have the same attitude, isolation
ensues...
I know what you are feeling. But, if you had the experience of a tilde >>admin/moderator telling you on the other's IRC network, that it is not
safe to have discussion of some topic on that IRC network,
Not safe in what sense? All you risk is a ban, right?
They are banning discourse on other tilde's. Other tilde's are managed
by modern days Nazis.
I wish you would not use so strong a name: there is much more to Nazism
than a strong centralised censorship.
Okay. I mean they are not in favour of free speech.
On 2024-10-15, keyboardan <keyboardan@tilde.club> wrote:
Okay. I mean they are not in favour of free speech.
I don't know what topics you want to discuss that are not allowed on
these chat servers, but why don't you find 4-5 people who are also
interested in those topics, and together with them make your own
discussion group? That seems a lot easier to me. Alternatively, if you
can't find 4 people who are also interested, maybe you are interested in topics that do not appeal to other people
say@tilde.club writes:
On 2024-10-15, keyboardan <keyboardan@tilde.club> wrote:
Okay. I mean they are not in favour of free speech.
I don't know what topics you want to discuss that are not allowed on
these chat servers, but why don't you find 4-5 people who are also
interested in those topics, and together with them make your own
discussion group? That seems a lot easier to me. Alternatively, if you
can't find 4 people who are also interested, maybe you are interested in
topics that do not appeal to other people
Yes and no. Sometimes it is better to stay quiet. Like with your reply.
So, you lost that chance.
Also, I am not interested what someone with a generic nickname such as
"say" has to say. So yeah, it is you who needs to find your own 4 or 5
people to chat with.
keyboardan <keyboardan@tilde.club> wrote:
say@tilde.club writes:
On 2024-10-15, keyboardan <keyboardan@tilde.club> wrote:
Okay. I mean they are not in favour of free speech.
I don't know what topics you want to discuss that are not allowed on
these chat servers, but why don't you find 4-5 people who are also
interested in those topics, and together with them make your own
discussion group? That seems a lot easier to me. Alternatively, if you
can't find 4 people who are also interested, maybe you are interested in >>> topics that do not appeal to other people
Yes and no. Sometimes it is better to stay quiet. Like with your reply.
So, you lost that chance.
So have you.
_o/"
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113Also, I am not interested what someone with a generic nickname such as
"say" has to say. So yeah, it is you who needs to find your own 4 or 5
people to chat with.
.
What I want to purpose is that the admins discuss and distrubute hosting different services among different tildes. For example, instead of
everybody running their own phpBB, maybe one of the tildes can run
phpBB and users from all around the ~verse can use it. In that case,
we won't have tiny isolated nanosocieties in the individual tildeverse members. One tilde runs a XMPP, another runs a Fediverse, yet another
brigdes with Usenet, another runs git-forgejo, etc. Less work for admins
and more consolidated communities and discussion.
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024, Annada Behera wrote:
What I want to purpose is that the admins discuss and distrubute hosting
different services among different tildes. For example, instead of
everybody running their own phpBB, maybe one of the tildes can run
phpBB and users from all around the ~verse can use it. In that case,
we won't have tiny isolated nanosocieties in the individual tildeverse
members. One tilde runs a XMPP, another runs a Fediverse, yet another
brigdes with Usenet, another runs git-forgejo, etc. Less work for admins
and more consolidated communities and discussion.
This ... is maybe too reasonable to ever happen :D
I have yet to finish reading the whole thread, but I've seen already a comment sharing their ... reserves, about the reliability of all the
tildes. I think that it's good that, for example, netnews are
replicated, offering some safeguard, other services are shared (mailing lists, there's the tildegit, bbj for some of them... probably more
that I'm forgetting)...
Maybe there will eventually be a natural equilibrium point between
everyone doing their own thing and a strict division...
Maybe some level of "redundancy" would be a cool feature: webserver configuration could be kept in a central repo, and all the tildes in the verse could rsync the /var/www ...
You get an account in any tilde, your user gets account in all of them.
Your public_html gets rsync'd, for example.
So, having a division of "services" is not really a crazy idea.
Anyway, yeah, that's my two cents.
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024, Annada Behera wrote:
What I want to purpose is that the admins discuss and distrubute hosting
different services among different tildes. For example, instead of
everybody running their own phpBB, maybe one of the tildes can run
phpBB and users from all around the ~verse can use it. In that case,
we won't have tiny isolated nanosocieties in the individual tildeverse
members. One tilde runs a XMPP, another runs a Fediverse, yet another
brigdes with Usenet, another runs git-forgejo, etc. Less work for admins
and more consolidated communities and discussion.
This ... is maybe too reasonable to ever happen :D
jmcs@tilde.club writes:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024, Annada Behera wrote:
What I want to purpose is that the admins discuss and distrubute hosting >>> different services among different tildes. For example, instead of
everybody running their own phpBB, maybe one of the tildes can run
phpBB and users from all around the ~verse can use it. In that case,
we won't have tiny isolated nanosocieties in the individual tildeverse
members. One tilde runs a XMPP, another runs a Fediverse, yet another
brigdes with Usenet, another runs git-forgejo, etc. Less work for admins >>> and more consolidated communities and discussion.
This ... is maybe too reasonable to ever happen :D
It's not reasonable.
What you guys are asking for is consensus---approximately what you
find in a dictatorship.
If labor is divided like that, then each part agrees with the
division, which implies consensus. When an innovator finds a way to
do something better, he first proposes the idea.
When the reception to the proposal doesn't have the effect the
innovator intended, is he allowed to put his prototype in practice?
If he's allowed, then that's the status quo.
If part A thinks B hosts offers a service S well enough, A can then
shutdown S and let S be served by B and call it a day.
Caden Kray <ck1998@yahoo.com> writes:
jmcs@tilde.club writes:
This ... is maybe too reasonable to ever happen :D
It's not reasonable.
I think Annada was say "too reasonable" as an ironic thing, as if being reasonable was slightly bad.
What you guys are asking for is consensus---approximately what you
find in a dictatorship.
Dictatorships does not use consensus at all. Dictatorship is a small
group ruling over a larger group, without ever taking into consideration
the larger group will.
Consensus is when all the parts agree on something. Or when a larger majority of the parts agree on something. Dictatorship is making rules
by the will of a few.
If labor is divided like that, then each part agrees with the
division, which implies consensus. When an innovator finds a way to
do something better, he first proposes the idea.
Yes.
When the reception to the proposal doesn't have the effect the
innovator intended, is he allowed to put his prototype in practice?
If he's allowed, then that's the status quo.
On Tue, 8 Apr 2025, keyboardan wrote:
Caden Kray <ck1998@yahoo.com> writes:
jmcs@tilde.club writes:
This ... is maybe too reasonable to ever happen :D
It's not reasonable.
I think Annada was say "too reasonable" as an ironic thing, as if being
reasonable was slightly bad.
That was me!
Yeah, I think you all are taking me too literally. It was only a joke, basically. It is true that with rigid consensus and ... specialization?,
we could achieve a perfect harmony and equilibrium that would mean less
work for admins, and less "fragmentation". My joke basically meant that humans don't always work in the most logical? or efficient way.
In the rest of my post, I even explored other ways to 'organize' the
services in the tildeverse that, for their own reasons, are also
impractical, even when they, in theory, could also come with beneficial
side effects (sorta like different types of RAID, now that I think of
it, in a way :D )
Yes, in the end, we are talking about the same: there's already some
of this 'division of labor' (as mentioned, tildegit, tildebooks,
tilde.zone, mailing lists, ML web interface, probably others that I
haven't seen yet), there are services like the news that are federated
and replicated, and therefore in theory more "error-resistant", and
there are others that are separated and more susceptible of creating mini-communities (be it by design, or as a side-effect).
| Sysop: | deepend |
|---|---|
| Location: | Calgary, Alberta |
| Users: | 269 |
| Nodes: | 10 (0 / 10) |
| Uptime: | 89:00:35 |
| Calls: | 2,165 |
| Calls today: | 3 |
| Files: | 4,567 |
| D/L today: |
18 files (9,997K bytes) |
| Messages: | 419,747 |